Mountain bikers are a scourge wherever they are found

Blackblade thinks the omens favor the ever increasing use of

trails by bikers, He couldn't be more wrong of course. It is a fad and
it will

soon pass. Here is evidence that the tide is already beginning to
turn. Common

sense will prevail in the end. Trails are for hikers. Roads are for


bikers.



1. I'm not for opening every trail to bikes



2. Last year, according to the report that you posted, more young
people took up mountainbiking than hiking



3. Last year, IMBA opened several hundred miles of new
trails



So, overall, the number of riders is increasing and the mileage of
trails open to them is increasing. Doesn't look like a fad to me.



Fads often last for a generation or so. That doesn't mean it
will be around for the long haul. What is being promoted to young people by the
IMBA and others is actually criminal. The young will have to learn the hard way
how people who should know better are actually scoundrels and blackguards who
promote things for their own advantage. The increasing injuries and deaths from
mountain biking will eventually result in its being banned from all but the
safest of trails which are more often rustic roads than anything
else.

Ah, more Dolan dodging ... make an assertion, have it refuted by actual evidence, revert to making original assertion with ad hominem. You have no evidence whatsoever that it will decline in the future ... no one can know .... but, for the moment, it's on an upward trend.

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

Fads often last for a generation or so. That doesn't mean it
will be around for the long haul. What is being promoted to young people by the
IMBA and others is actually criminal. The young will have to learn the hard way
how people who should know better are actually scoundrels and blackguards who
promote things for their own advantage. The increasing injuries and deaths from
mountain biking will eventually result in its being banned from all but the
safest of trails which are more often rustic roads than anything
else.

Ah, more Dolan dodging ... make an assertion, have it refuted by actual evidence, revert to making original assertion with ad hominem. You have no evidence whatsoever that it will decline in the future ... no one can know ... but, for the moment, it's on an upward trend.

The near universal acknowledgment of the dangers of mountain biking on hiking trails will mean the end of it. Once the lawsuits began it will happen fast. Mr. Vandeman has much better arguments than I do for its demise, but his arguments presuppose other intelligent beings who can be persuaded. I, on the other hand, am convinced that only the ever increasing deaths of bikers on trails will result in its banishment.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.�
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

Fads often last for a generation or so. That doesn't mean it

will be around for the long haul. What is being promoted to young
people by the

IMBA and others is actually criminal. The young will have to learn the
hard way

how people who should know better are actually scoundrels and
blackguards who

promote things for their own advantage. The increasing injuries and
deaths from

mountain biking will eventually result in its being banned from all
but the

safest of trails which are more often rustic roads than anything


else.

Ah, more Dolan dodging ... make an assertion, have it refuted by
actual evidence, revert to making original assertion with ad hominem.* You
have no evidence whatsoever that it will decline in the future ... no one can
know ... but, for the moment, it's on an upward trend.

The near universal acknowledgment of the dangers of mountain
biking on hiking trails will mean the end of it.

What 'near universal' acknowledgement of the dangers ? References ?? Data to backup this proposition ??

I think you lie ... again.

Once the lawsuits began it will
happen fast.

More than twenty years ... and still growing ... methinks you hope rather than have any rational basis for this supposition.

Mr. Vandeman has much better arguments than I do for its demise,
but his arguments presuppose other intelligent beings who can be persuaded. I,
on the other hand, am convinced that only the ever increasing deaths of bikers
on trails will result in its banishment.

In which case, if that's the basis on which you are pinning your hopes, I would abandon hope now. The real statistics suggest that it's a relatively safe activity with a net benefit in terms of health. As such, I would suggest it is much more likely that it will continue to grow for some considerable time to come.

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

The near universal acknowledgment of the dangers of mountain
biking on hiking trails will mean the end of it.

What 'near universal' acknowledgement of the dangers ? References ?? Data to backup this proposition ??

I think you lie ... again.

This is how dumb you can get when you don’t follow what is being reported in the media. Ignorance is bliss, apparently.

Once the lawsuits began it will
happen fast.

More than twenty years ... and still growing ... methinks you hope rather than have any rational basis for this supposition.

We will have to wait to see how this will play out.

Mr. Vandeman has much better arguments than I do for its demise,
but his arguments presuppose other intelligent beings who can be persuaded. I,
on the other hand, am convinced that only the ever increasing deaths of bikers
on trails will result in its banishment.

In which case, if that's the basis on which you are pinning your hopes, I would abandon hope now. The real statistics suggest that it's a relatively safe activity with a net benefit in terms of health. As such, I would suggest it is much more likely that it will continue to grow for some considerable time to come.

It can happen rather suddenly if and when the outrage reaches a certain point.

Read below for what can cause the outrage, although this happens to apply to urban cycling:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/ny...3A8%22%7D&_r=0

After Woman Is Struck, Debate on Cycling in City Is Revived

By BENJAMIN MUELLER and KIA GREGORYSEPT. 19, 2014

Police officers on Friday handed out safety fliers on West Drive,
where a pedestrian was hit. Credit Michael Nagle for The New York Times

The long-simmering conflict between bicyclists and pedestrians in
New York City flared again after a 58-year-old woman was struck by
a bicyclist and critically injured in Central Park on Thursday afternoon.

The woman, Jill Tarlov of Fairfield, Conn., was walking across
West Drive near West 63rd Street in the park around 4:25 p.m. when
the bicyclist, a 31-year-old man, came along the road.

He swerved to avoid one group of pedestrians but struck Ms.
Tarlov, causing her to hit her head. She was listed in critical
condition at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical
Center, the police said.

No charges have been filed against the bicyclist, whom the police
declined to identify. He was taken to Mount Sinai Hospital after
the accident with injuries to his shoulder and hand.

On Friday afternoon, the police were trying to alert bicyclists
to safety requirements in Central Park.

At the same crosswalk where Ms. Tarlov was struck, four officers
instructed groups of cyclists to stop at red lights and yield to pedestrians.

The officers also handed out fliers advising riders on how to
avoid accidents.

Earlier in the day, zooming cyclists shared the road with
horse-drawn carriages and women pushing jogging strollers.

Some pedestrians crossed against the light, and joggers ran in a
bicycle lane, prompting one cyclist to yell, "What are you doing?"

Shahjahan Talukder, a food-cart vendor on West Drive, said that
just before the accident he heard someone yell, "Move!" When he
looked up, he saw a woman lying in the street.

"Who's right, who's wrong," he said, "I don't know."

He added that he had seen accidents on the road before and
worried for pedestrians.

"The bikes are crazy," he said. "They should close bikes here."

Accidents are not uncommon on the busy park roadways, frequented
by bicyclists, tourists, joggers, pedicabs, skateboarders and
in-line skaters. In August, a 75-year-old man was fatally struck by
a teenage bicyclist trying to avoid a pedicab driver in the park.

Some say the danger from bicyclists in the city has never been
greater. Commuters on Citi Bikes run red lights on the same roads
where cyclists ride against the flow of traffic and race, they say.

"I'm turning to the right, I'm turning to the left, I don't know
where they're going to come at me," said Bunny Abraham of the Upper
West Side, who has called for new rules that would require riders
to have licenses. "They feel as if they own the city," she said.
"They feel as if they own the roads. And you cannot touch them."

The city has recently sought to clamp down on reckless cycling.
So far this year, the authorities have issued 468 moving summonses
for bicycle violations in Central Park, more than triple the 151
summonses issued in the same period last year, the police said.
Half of the summonses issued this year penalized riders who failed
to yield to pedestrians.

And a two-week Police Department initiative in August, Operation
Safe Cycle, conducted as part of Mayor Bill de Blasio's Vision Zero
traffic safety campaign, led to 4,300 moving violations for
cyclists across the city.
Continue reading the main story Continue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story

Eileen Kurtis, 61, who walks three or four times a week along the
stretch of the park where Ms. Tarlov was hurt, said she had had
some close calls.

"When there is a herd of bikes," Ms. Kurtis said, "I wait, I dodge."

With more bicycles on the road, she said, "I feel it could happen
to anyone."

Michele Bodner, who lives on the Upper West Side and was walking
her terrier, as she does every morning, said she often saw bicycles
crossing into the pedestrian and car lanes "to go as fast as they can."

She expressed outrage about the accident, saying she and others
were organizing a petition that would call for the city to
establish a speed limit for bicycles and for the police to enforce summonses.

"Every single person who uses this park every single day, many
times over, has been threatened by these groups," she said.
"There's no other way to put it."

Paul Steely White, the executive director of Transportation
Alternatives, a cycling and pedestrian advocacy group, said in a
statement that the group's thoughts were with Ms. Tarlov.

"Because we're serious about reaching Vision Zero," he said, "we
need to speak out in response to every preventable tragedy and
condemn all acts of reckless behavior in traffic."

The statement added: "As the most vulnerable users of our
streets, pedestrians must be safe from reckless cycling, just as
they need to be protected from reckless driving. This is
particularly true in our parks."

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.�
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:21:04 -0500, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

This is how dumb you can get when you don’t follow what is being reported in the media. Ignorance is bliss, apparently.


It obviously is as you keep posting in the face of evidence that you
don't know what you are talking about.

Saint Eddie. The patron of the uninformed.
--
cheers,

The foolkkiller

The near universal acknowledgment of the dangers of
mountain

biking on hiking trails will mean the end of
it.

What 'near universal' acknowledgement of the dangers
? References ?? Data to backup this proposition ??

I think you lie ... again.

This is how dumb you can get when you don't follow what is
being reported in the media. Ignorance is bliss, apparently.

I will leave the enjoyment of ignorance to you ... as you don't want to read anything that doesn't agree with your limited viewpoint.

However, the fundamental point remains ... there is NO "near universal" acknowledgement of the dangers. The risk remains 1.54 injuries per 1,000 exposures which is relatively low when compared with other sports and activities.

Once the lawsuits began it will

happen fast.

More than twenty years ... and still growing ...
methinks you hope rather than have any rational basis for this
supposition.

We will have to wait to see how this will play
out.

Indeed we will ... but the vast majority of moves seem to be in favour of mountainbiking as more and more users take it up.

Mr. Vandeman has much better arguments than I do for its
demise,

but his arguments presuppose other intelligent beings who
can be persuaded. I,

on the other hand, am convinced that only the ever
increasing deaths of bikers

on trails will result in its banishment.

In which case, if that's the basis on which you are
pinning your hopes, I would abandon hope now. The real statistics suggest
that it's a relatively safe activity with a net benefit in terms of
health. As such, I would suggest it is much more likely that it will
continue to grow for some considerable time to come.

It can happen rather suddenly if and when the outrage reaches
a certain point.

All kinds of things can happen when there is sufficient public impetus. However, as more and more people wish to ride I would suggest that the more likely outcome is that biking will be increasingly accomodated rather than banned.

"Foolkiller" wrote in message news
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:21:04 -0500, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

This is how dumb you can get when you don’t follow what is being reported in the media. Ignorance is bliss, apparently.


It obviously is as you keep posting in the face of evidence that you
don't know what you are talking about.

Saint Eddie. The patron of the uninformed.

**** you too Asshole!

Post content or get lost. What an Asshole!

Now go **** yourself and quit bothering the honorable members of this noble newsgroup.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.�
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

This is how dumb you can [Blackblade] get when you don't follow what is
being reported in the media. Ignorance is bliss, apparently.

I will leave the enjoyment of ignorance to you ... as you don't want to read anything that doesn't agree with your limited viewpoint.

I have read your crap until I am overflowing with the stupidity of it.

However, the fundamental point remains ... there is NO "near universal" acknowledgement of the dangers. The risk remains 1.54 injuries per 1,000 exposures which is relatively low when compared with other sports and activities.

I advise that you stay away from any and all numbers as they only lead you astray.
[...]

increasing deaths of bikers on trails will result in its banishment.
It can happen rather suddenly if and when the outrage reaches
a certain point.

All kinds of things can happen when there is sufficient public impetus. However, as more and more people wish to ride I would suggest that the more likely outcome is that biking will be increasingly accomodated rather than banned.

Biking will be restricted more and more. It will be banished from dangerous trails where there is a record of injuries and deaths. Not every one in the world is as stupid as you are.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.�
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

This is how dumb you can [Blackblade] get when you don't follow what
is

being reported in the media. Ignorance is bliss, apparently.

I will leave the enjoyment of ignorance to you ... as you don't
want to read anything that doesn't agree with your limited viewpoint.

I have read your crap until I am overflowing with the
stupidity of it.

So reports from the British Medical Journal and the Mountain Rescue Service are 'crap' whereas random media articles culled from the web are valuable ? The only stupidity here is yours in assuming that you know everything and don't have to read anything.

However, the fundamental point remains ... there is NO "near
universal" acknowledgement of the dangers.* The risk remains 1.54 injuries
per 1,000 exposures which is relatively low when compared with other sports and
activities.

I advise that you stay away from any and all numbers as they
only lead you astray.

I think you know what you can do with your 'advice' ! I will stick with real data and leave the fantasy, opinion and speculation to you.

increasing deaths of bikers on trails will result in its
banishment.

It can happen rather suddenly if and when the outrage reaches

a certain point.

*

All kinds of things can happen when there is sufficient public
impetus.* However, as more and more people wish to ride I would suggest
that the more likely outcome is that biking will be increasingly accomodated
rather than banned.

Biking will be restricted more and more. It will be banished
from dangerous trails where there is a record of injuries and deaths. Not every
one in the world is as stupid as you are.

You keep writing this despite there being no evidence whatsoever of it actually happening ... in fact, the opposite is occurring, more and more trails are becoming open to bikes. A fact that your criminal pal vandeman bemoans but acknowledges is true.

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...
[...]

Edward Dolan wrote:

I suspect hikers outnumber bikers 100,000 to 1, maybe
1,000,000 to 1.

Well, your suspicions are, yet again, wrong. There are are 50 million mountainbikers in the US alone so that would require there to be between 5 and 50 TRILLION hikers ... rather more than the population of the earth. Idiot.

Just can’t resist numbers can you? How about hikers to bikers 1,000,000,000 to 1. Have fun!

Apparently it is my destiny to be Bugs Bunny to your Elmer Fudd.
[...]

Media reports say it all.

Yes, they say that hiking is more dangerous than biking ... more reports of fatalities and serious injuries. Idiot.

Your dumb numbers only say whatever you are dumb enough to believe. You are worse than an idiot. You are a fool!
[...]

I'm conservative politically ... so, not at all into politically correct thinking. But it's still totally irrelevant.

But you are into politically correct thinking. After all, this business about sharing because public is a liberal notion. Also, you seem to be lacking any elitist sentiments. You are not a conservative socially. We social conservatives believe in tradition, and trails have traditionally been just for hikers (and equestrians), not for every new thing that comes down the pike.

Mountain bikers are barbarians and have no right to be on any trail used by hikers – unless they want to get off their god damn ****ing bikes and walk like everyone else. When they crash and injure themselves, I rejoice! If and when they manage to kill themselves, I say good riddance to bad rubbish! Death to mountain biking!

“Tread softly! All the earth is holy ground.�
~ Christina Rossetti (Psalm 24),
from "A Later Life: A Double Sonnet of Sonnets"

Mountain bikes have wheels. Wheels are for roads.

Trails are for walking. What’s the matter? Can’t walk?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great