Electric Bikes

Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:

[...]


The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.


[...]

Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.


It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.

Phones folks seem to swap out every few years, I have the oldest phone of
all of the folks I know bar my dad! Mind you plenty of folks seem to trash
the phone and battery in that time.

My phone is 3/4 years old has apparently dropped to 86% it hates work as
it’s always on the edge of WiFi and cellular reception, so that does tend
to kill the battery.

Things like my iPad and Garmin have huge battery life so I don’t charge
every day as will last days.

The separate Garmin I have for the commute (the battery) is unlikely to
last as it’s used most days so the cycle count builds up.

New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.


They say that for a couple of decades now :-)

Batteries do seem to be lasting better my last iPad was 6 or so years old
before I retired it, and it’s battery was still fine, had lost some charge
but could still last all day, but it wasn’t fast enough any more for the
software I use.

Roger Merriman.

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 2:13:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:

[...]


The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.


[...]

Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.


It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.

Phones folks seem to swap out every few years, I have the oldest phone of
all of the folks I know bar my dad! Mind you plenty of folks seem to trash
the phone and battery in that time.

My phone is 3/4 years old has apparently dropped to 86% it hates work as
it’s always on the edge of WiFi and cellular reception, so that does tend
to kill the battery.

Things like my iPad and Garmin have huge battery life so I don’t charge
every day as will last days.

The separate Garmin I have for the commute (the battery) is unlikely to
last as it’s used most days so the cycle count builds up.

New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.


They say that for a couple of decades now :-)

Batteries do seem to be lasting better my last iPad was 6 or so years old
before I retired it, and it’s battery was still fine, had lost some charge
but could still last all day, but it wasn’t fast enough any more for the
software I use.

Roger Merriman.
Your iPad has a huge battery for the amount of work it is expected to do. A receiver only such as the Garmin doesn't use a lot of power. Smart phones are expected to do a lot of transmit/receive work and batteries suffer.

On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the same as a good gas driven car.

On 6/2/2021 10:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology
since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid
battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to
top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike
in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of
capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a
short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when
they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all
the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not
often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never
seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any
circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll
to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know.
Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design
stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every
single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will
be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man
who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors
were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being
able to charge in minutes and not have any components that
chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly
certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other
issue is that then all the electric vehicle commuters will
want to recharge in 10mins after they got home around 6pm so
they can drive to a nice restaurant with their spouses.
Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the power
grid and ... po0f :-)


So I guess it's inherent and structural that we can't really
judge electric vehicle owners and their anger management
failures

https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/e-bike...ould-kill-you/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 10:28:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2021 10:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology
since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid
battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to
top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike
in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of
capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a
short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when
they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all
the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not
often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never
seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any
circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll
to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know.
Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design
stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every
single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will
be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man
who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors
were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being
able to charge in minutes and not have any components that
chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly
certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other
issue is that then all the electric vehicle commuters will
want to recharge in 10mins after they got home around 6pm so
they can drive to a nice restaurant with their spouses.
Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the power
grid and ... po0f :-)

So I guess it's inherent and structural that we can't really
judge electric vehicle owners and their anger management
failures

https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/e-bike...ould-kill-you/

If this guy had a normal bicycle he could easily pass those meter readers.

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 10:28:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2021 10:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology
since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid
battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to
top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike
in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of
capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a
short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when
they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all
the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not
often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never
seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any
circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll
to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know.
Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design
stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every
single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will
be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man
who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors
were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being
able to charge in minutes and not have any components that
chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly
certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other
issue is that then all the electric vehicle commuters will
want to recharge in 10mins after they got home around 6pm so
they can drive to a nice restaurant with their spouses.
Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the power
grid and ... po0f :-)

So I guess it's inherent and structural that we can't really
judge electric vehicle owners and their anger management
failures

https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/e-bike...ould-kill-you/

That was the same sort of response that people got from VW bug drivers.

On 6/2/21 9:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the same as a good gas driven car.


If it charges via solar like friends do it who live de-facto off grid,
then it's ok. But one fine day it won't be sunny, there is no wind but
one has to run an errand. Then ... it's the gas generator.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 2:13:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:

[...]


The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.


[...]

Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.


It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.

Phones folks seem to swap out every few years, I have the oldest phone of
all of the folks I know bar my dad! Mind you plenty of folks seem to trash
the phone and battery in that time.

My phone is 3/4 years old has apparently dropped to 86% it hates work as
it’s always on the edge of WiFi and cellular reception, so that does tend
to kill the battery.

Things like my iPad and Garmin have huge battery life so I don’t charge
every day as will last days.

The separate Garmin I have for the commute (the battery) is unlikely to
last as it’s used most days so the cycle count builds up.

New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.


They say that for a couple of decades now :-)

Batteries do seem to be lasting better my last iPad was 6 or so years old
before I retired it, and it’s battery was still fine, had lost some charge
but could still last all day, but it wasn’t fast enough any more for the
software I use.

Roger Merriman.
Your iPad has a huge battery for the amount of work it is expected to do.
A receiver only such as the Garmin doesn't use a lot of power. Smart
phones are expected to do a lot of transmit/receive work and batteries suffer.

iPads do have larger batteries though so do laptops to be honest, they do
tend to get hotter though.

Garmin’s generally do connect to said phones via Bluetooth for various
connected tech.

Roger Merriman