Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is reborn inChicago

"Peter Cole" wrote in message
news:BotCj.10207$dK3.4686@trndny03...
Jay wrote:

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.

That's the mantra, just keep chanting.

Peter, really...I am disappointed. I expected better from you. My 2 yr old
Brooks saddle on my folder will probably last a lifetime. I suggest: If you
and my friend LO are on the same page, turn the page (but don't tell LO).

After a brief break in period, my handsome 2 yr old B17 is tradition and
beauty rolled into one. A work of art.

Please reconsider. If you and LO agree, can this possibly be a good thing,
for your RBT reputation?

For me, I just don't care, since I have already been branded a 'wingnut'.
But I kind of like it.

Wingnut J.

On Mar 14, 12:16*am, "Jay" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

... Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).

Andre Jute
Dutch city bikes forever

(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.

I expect to get most of my spec'ed parts from RTC tomorrow (Fri 14-Mar). I
know RBT folks are impatient to see how this bike turned out, but I just
can't take pics of these stock grips. And I need the extra long seat post to
mount my DiNotte taillight and the Arkel seatbag, etc. I do not want to
waste RBT's time on a half-baked Electra. Especially not when this bike will
be a very important part of my commuting life for years to come.

I do think the stock Electra taillight is a puny piece of crap, not on a par
with the other bike components. But I will have redundant head and tail
lights, especially for winter use. So this is not a big deal.

I have three supposedly "upmarket" Dutch and German taillights which
are all in one way or another unsatisfactory (fragility,
waterproofing, light- and motion-sensing electronics not working well)
-- but the one thing they have in common in that the light output is
wretched. Day and night I depend instead on a battery -operated.
Cateye TL-LD1100 which throws lots of light to the side as well and
offers several flashing modes. It's been so successful in earning me
space on the road that I am planning to install a flashing light to
the front as well, to operate day and night.

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.

J.

I sit comfortably on a Cheeko90 which has no nose; the makers of
Cheeko are earning my money but damn sure not by causing me pain!

Andre Jute
Am I really the last hedonist? Or is just that cyclists are drawn
exclusively from among the sado-masochists?

On Mar 14, 8:16*pm, "Jay" wrote:
"Peter Cole" wrote in message

news:BotCj.10207$dK3.4686@trndny03... Jay wrote:

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.

That's the mantra, just keep chanting.

Peter, really...I am disappointed. I expected better from you. My 2 yr old
Brooks saddle on my folder will probably last a lifetime. I suggest: If you
and my friend LO are on the same page, turn the page (but don't tell LO).

After a brief break in period, my handsome 2 yr old B17 is tradition and
beauty rolled into one.

Or a hassle. Nobody that actually really really rides every day in my
home town of Gothenburg outside of the kooks would even think of
riding a Brooks when you can ride a modern stable, weather proof and
comfy saddle. Sheldon was wrong on this one for commuters. Perhaps
it's worth the hassle for touring. I've been through 4 leather saddles
in 20 years and none were really *that* great, really. One B-17 was
nice for a month or two. It looked ****ing brilliant. I only got it
because ten twelve years ago stock saddles were in a dark stretch and
I had to have *something* that didn't rely on the taint for support.
Mind, I do like classic Rolls and Turbos for road riding--basically
thin shells with minimal padding in the essence of a leather saddle.

For city riding I'm a convert to the wonderfully practical Taiwanese
with their noisy noodle parlors and perfect Velo brand saddles. My
last two stock bikes have come with them, and I'll stick with nothing
less for city riding. Absolute perfect for ten mile comfort.

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...ils&sku=SA4282

Twenty bucks, and it probably fits your ass too.

"Peter Cole" wrote in message
news:BotCj.10207$dK3.4686@trndny03...

That's the mantra, just keep chanting.

....must...ride...through...the...pain

j.

Jay wrote:
"Peter Cole" wrote in message
news:BotCj.10207$dK3.4686@trndny03...
Jay wrote:

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.
That's the mantra, just keep chanting.

Peter, really...I am disappointed. I expected better from you. My 2 yr old
Brooks saddle on my folder will probably last a lifetime. I suggest: If you
and my friend LO are on the same page, turn the page (but don't tell LO).

After a brief break in period, my handsome 2 yr old B17 is tradition and
beauty rolled into one. A work of art.

Please reconsider. If you and LO agree, can this possibly be a good thing,
for your RBT reputation?

For me, I just don't care, since I have already been branded a 'wingnut'.
But I kind of like it.

Wingnut J.



Brooks saddles seem to have either lovers or haters. I'm a hater, but I
know many lovers. When I hear someone say a Brooks must be "earned"
through discomfort, my suspicion is that they are a hater who haven't
realized it yet.

Other than comfort, I don't have any expectations from a saddle. I don't
particularly like the way Brooks saddles look, nor do I care for their
fussiness, heft or price. I might tolerate all that if I found them
unusually comfortable, but to me they're crippling.

On Mar 18, 12:29 pm, Peter Cole wrote:
Jay wrote:
"Peter Cole" wrote in message
news:BotCj.10207$dK3.4686@trndny03...
Jay wrote:

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.
That's the mantra, just keep chanting.

Peter, really...I am disappointed. I expected better from you. My 2 yr old
Brooks saddle on my folder will probably last a lifetime. I suggest: If you
and my friend LO are on the same page, turn the page (but don't tell LO).

After a brief break in period, my handsome 2 yr old B17 is tradition and
beauty rolled into one. A work of art.

Please reconsider. If you and LO agree, can this possibly be a good thing,
for your RBT reputation?

For me, I just don't care, since I have already been branded a 'wingnut'.
But I kind of like it.

Wingnut J.

Brooks saddles seem to have either lovers or haters. I'm a hater, but I
know many lovers. When I hear someone say a Brooks must be "earned"
through discomfort, my suspicion is that they are a hater who haven't
realized it yet.


Succinctly put! Actually, I don't even hate them--find a B17 out of
the box not too bad, and handsome--but overly expensive and fussy if
one's simply looking for function.

Other than comfort, I don't have any expectations from a saddle. I don't
particularly like the way Brooks saddles look, nor do I care for their
fussiness, heft or price. I might tolerate all that if I found them
unusually comfortable, but to me they're crippling.

I find that a B17/Flyer is the same way for me after a few months as
well. After it breaks in the slightest, no amount of fiddling with the
angle or tension can get it from becoming "the thing I think about
instead of enjoying the ride". Gimme a Rolls or a Turbo on the
sporting ride, and a WTB or Velo for the city bike and I'm happy. With
the latter, I can stand up every five miles and let the bits and bobs
get some circulation. Avocets ain't too bad either.

What's funny is that I know the theory of why the leather saddle
should be comfy--I've experienced that little window of comfort where
your bones are perfectly supported and you're almost invisibly
supported, but then the dang thing breaks in slightly and the fight
begins...you slide forward, so you push back with your hands, you tire
of that, tilt the nose up, more up, slide around, too much up, numb,
down again...or there's the setting up of a plastic shelled saddle for
me: clamp exact middle of rail, adjust so straight edge is dead level,
ride.

On Mar 18, 1:29 pm, Peter Cole wrote:

Brooks saddles seem to have either lovers or haters. I'm a hater, but I
know many lovers. When I hear someone say a Brooks must be "earned"
through discomfort, my suspicion is that they are a hater who haven't
realized it yet.

Other than comfort, I don't have any expectations from a saddle. I don't
particularly like the way Brooks saddles look, nor do I care for their
fussiness, heft or price. I might tolerate all that if I found them
unusually comfortable, but to me they're crippling.

Well, I really like the way they look. It's the retro-grouch in me, I
guess. If I were going to build a bike to be a work of art displayed
in my living room, I'd put a honey-colored Brooks on it.

But for actual riding? No way. I tried several of them (B-17 Narrow,
B-17 Standard, B-66, and purportedly "pre-softened" Pro). I some
cases, I tried them for years. I never got the degree of comfort I
enjoy with a modern saddle. More honestly, I never got them to simply
stop hurting.

Then there was the worry about getting them too wet. And while I'm no
weight-weenie, there was the heft.

I may put the B-66 on the short hop three-speed I'm getting ready to
build. But that's going to be more for art than for function.

In general, no thanks; give me plastic and foam.

- Frank Krygowski

Per :
But for actual riding? No way. I tried several of them (B-17 Narrow,
B-17 Standard, B-66, and purportedly "pre-softened" Pro). I some
cases, I tried them for years. I never got the degree of comfort I
enjoy with a modern saddle. More honestly, I never got them to simply
stop hurting.

There's an aspect of B-17's that nobody seems to talk about.

For the broad-of-butt, they offer more usable sit bone support
width than regular saddles - most of which seem to have a
re-enforced area around the outer edge of the saddle shell.

Take a look under, say, a WTB Speed-V. The intended area for
sit bone support is obvious by the softer grey material and is a
way narrower than the total saddle.

OTOH, with a leather sling saddle, your sit bones can be closer
to the edge - albeit still not on the edge at the widest point.

The dents on my B-17's are about 125mm center-to-center - which
is right on the edge width-wise.

My guess is that I've got a 135 or 150 mm butt. The big Brooks
saddles (210+) are too wide, whereas the B-17 (170mm) just barely
fits. Another 10-20 mm and I'd be in pig heaven.

The only conventional saddles that are wide enough are the
"comfort" saddles - and they're not only too wide, but also too
soft.

Show me a Selle Italia SLR that has 135 or 150 mm of usable sit
bone support width, and I might drop my B-17s in a New York
minute.
--
PeteCresswell

"landotter" wrote in message
...


Succinctly put! Actually, I don't even hate them--find a B17 out of
the box not too bad, and handsome--but overly expensive and fussy if
one's simply looking for function.

Other than comfort, I don't have any expectations from a saddle. I don't
particularly like the way Brooks saddles look, nor do I care for their
fussiness, heft or price. I might tolerate all that if I found them
unusually comfortable, but to me they're crippling.

I find that a B17/Flyer is the same way for me after a few months as
well. After it breaks in the slightest, no amount of fiddling with the
angle or tension can get it from becoming "the thing I think about
instead of enjoying the ride". Gimme a Rolls or a Turbo on the
sporting ride, and a WTB or Velo for the city bike and I'm happy. With
the latter, I can stand up every five miles and let the bits and bobs
get some circulation. Avocets ain't too bad either.

What's funny is that I know the theory of why the leather saddle
should be comfy--I've experienced that little window of comfort where
your bones are perfectly supported and you're almost invisibly
supported, but then the dang thing breaks in slightly and the fight
begins...you slide forward, so you push back with your hands, you tire
of that, tilt the nose up, more up, slide around, too much up, numb,
down again...or there's the setting up of a plastic shelled saddle for
me: clamp exact middle of rail, adjust so straight edge is dead level,
ride.

LO, I hate to say...you are not man enough to ride a Brooks saddle.

Looks like the lesser whatevers will be fine for you.

J.

On Mar 18, 8:35 pm, "Jay" wrote:
"landotter" wrote in message

...



Succinctly put! Actually, I don't even hate them--find a B17 out of
the box not too bad, and handsome--but overly expensive and fussy if
one's simply looking for function.

Other than comfort, I don't have any expectations from a saddle. I don't
particularly like the way Brooks saddles look, nor do I care for their
fussiness, heft or price. I might tolerate all that if I found them
unusually comfortable, but to me they're crippling.

I find that a B17/Flyer is the same way for me after a few months as
well. After it breaks in the slightest, no amount of fiddling with the
angle or tension can get it from becoming "the thing I think about
instead of enjoying the ride". Gimme a Rolls or a Turbo on the
sporting ride, and a WTB or Velo for the city bike and I'm happy. With
the latter, I can stand up every five miles and let the bits and bobs
get some circulation. Avocets ain't too bad either.

What's funny is that I know the theory of why the leather saddle
should be comfy--I've experienced that little window of comfort where
your bones are perfectly supported and you're almost invisibly
supported, but then the dang thing breaks in slightly and the fight
begins...you slide forward, so you push back with your hands, you tire
of that, tilt the nose up, more up, slide around, too much up, numb,
down again...or there's the setting up of a plastic shelled saddle for
me: clamp exact middle of rail, adjust so straight edge is dead level,
ride.

LO, I hate to say...you are not man enough to ride a Brooks saddle.

Ridden four over twenty years, long enough to admit I didn't find them
optimal, long enough to admit that I was at times even overtly
sanctimonious about them, long enough to admit that I was wrong.

Looks like the lesser whatevers will be fine for you.

Enjoy your rigidity in multiple manifestations. Suicide is not
uncommon in the most beautiful manors.