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Jon Senior wrote:

Recumbents (Or certainly, those I've looked at) seem to start at a much=
=20
higher basic price than uprights. This may be a reflection of the build=
=20
quality, but it does mean that the lower end of the market is not=20
catered for.

They are a specialist niche market. An obvious parallel is that 'cross=20
bikes, downhill MTBs and track bikes start at a much higher basic price, =

because they're only sold to pretty serious people for whom there isn't=20
much point in cheap 'n cheerful.
Though it is for different reasons. Not many people have any real use=20
for a track bike, so they don't sell well. With 'bents, first up not=20
many people know about them (I get a /lot/ of people saying they've=20
never seen anything like mine) and if they do then if the price issue=20
isn't a problem (and it's less likely to be among serious cyclists who=20
do come across them and know a bit about them) conservatism tends to be=20
the next major hurdle. And it's quite understandable: "I have =A31,500, =

do I buy a better version of my current setup which I *know* will be=20
better, or do I take a leap in the dark at something I don't really know =

much about with that large pile of money?". Most people come down on=20
the first option, and I can't say I blame them.

Is the rotation point of the stem the steerer tube? The ones I've seen =

(online) seem to have a more complex system than this, that separates=20
the steering centre from the steerer tube.=20

Yes. If you rode Eddie's it works the same way. USS linkages are=20
fairly common, but are basically a rod which I don't see should be too=20
hard to work at, though I also don't see why it's likely to give any=20
trouble.

"the new frame has a larger headset, hence new steerer and front forks,=
=20
which means that the rear brake pipe needs to be 3" longer than the old=
=20
one. Messrs. Hope have been commissioned to make a new one, which=20
should be ready early next week, so after about two months consigned to=
=20
wedgiedom I'll be back on my 'bent from next weekend, I hope."
=20
And it has had other issues.=20

But they basically come down to the replacement not being like for like. =

If my Streetmachine frame needs replacing then it'll be the same frame =

it has now (aside from being a slightly different colour), so it=20
wouldn't be so much of a problem. See the other thread about waiting=20
ages and ages for a new Galaxy: if you need a new frame for a Super-G,=20
how long would that take right now?

Didn't clock the joke... more smileys please :-). I do hope that bents =

will follow the Linux curve. When I started playing with Linux, there=20
were few distributions, and installing it meant playing around with=20
arcane text commands for hours on end. A steadily increasing user-base =

has lead to some great "home" distributions such as Suze and Mandrake=20
which help encourage more people. Perhaps as bents develop a larger use=
r=20
base, they too will decrease in price (Mass-production savings) and thu=
s=20
we'll see more of them.

Chicken and egg thing, unfortunately. Hopefully the Giant EZB will make =

some inroads into the utility market (saw quite a few in the NL) and=20
start breaking enough barriers that someone like Giant who can do=20
economies of scale can justify making a more downmarket "proper" 'bent.=20
But at the moment a cheap 'bent is a bit like a cheap Thorn. There=20
are cheap/er/ models, but you need economies of scale for really mass=20
market. Software needs nothing but time to make, while strong metal=20
tubes and precision gearing mechanisms will always cost Real Money for=20
the materials as well.
And it'll take longer in the UK than anywhere with a real cycling=20
culture. I get laughed at on the Brompton because it has small wheels.=20
There isn't much hope for people buying things en masse for rational=20
reasons in such a climate :-(

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke wrote:

Sasser.

We've just rid ourselves of this turbulent er, worm here at the Nut
Mines. It arrived late on Friday morning. Still, if the Evil Squirrels
/will/ make half the network support team redundant, eh...

Why do people continue to use Microsoft products?

It's called "Corporate Policy". Or something.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

Jon Senior wrote:
I do hope that bents
will follow the Linux curve. When I started playing with Linux, there
were few distributions, and installing it meant playing around with
arcane text commands for hours on end. A steadily increasing user-base
has lead to some great "home" distributions such as Suze and Mandrake
which help encourage more people. Perhaps as bents develop a larger user
base, they too will decrease in price (Mass-production savings) and thus
we'll see more of them.

I think it's happening. They've certainly become more and more common
since I first discovered them 10 years ago, particularly over the last
couple of years.

Although bents may not be cheaper than they were back then, ISTM that
you get more for your money. And there now seems to be a reasonable
second hand market, which can't be bad.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
url:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Danny Colyer le opined the following...
I think it's happening. They've certainly become more and more common=20
since I first discovered them 10 years ago, particularly over the last=20
couple of years.
=20
Although bents may not be cheaper than they were back then, ISTM that=20
you get more for your money. And there now seems to be a reasonable=20
second hand market, which can't be bad.

The Senior "Homebuild" bent is currently at the planning stage. Given I=20
will be doing a spot of welding, I may have to invest in the helmet,=20
knee and elbow pads... or possibly the downhilling armour.

The aim to get bent (hmm) for =A3400 all in.

If I ever manage to get the project off the ground, I'll put up some web=20
pages.

Jon

Jon Senior wrote:

If I ever manage to get the project off the ground, I'll put up some web
pages.


A flying bent! Ambitious

Tony ;-)

Jon Senior wrote:

The aim to get bent (hmm) for =A3400 all in.

You can already get an off the peg for 500, the HPVel Wavey. And if=20
you've got a donor bike the Dutchbikes kit comes in at a fair bit less.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article , =20
says...
Jon Senior wrote:
=20
The aim to get bent (hmm) for =A3400 all in.
=20
You can already get an off the peg for 500, the HPVel Wavey. And if=20
you've got a donor bike the Dutchbikes kit comes in at a fair bit less.

Funnily enough, the basic design is a rip-off of the Dutchbikes kit.=20
When I've priced it all up, I'll know whether I can make it for less. If=20
I can build the frame myself, I also then have the option of USS and=20
front suspension. I was looking at the same price bracket for the=20
Dutchbikes kit, including getting a donor bike, but this way I get a=20
daft project to do.

Jon

In article , says...
Jon Senior wrote:

If I ever manage to get the project off the ground, I'll put up some web
pages.


A flying bent! Ambitious

Just needs wings. Apparently, someone has done the maths, and concluded
that it is possible to build a HP Helicopter. The only requirement is a
person capable of producing 400W for 45 seconds (The time constraint is
required to prove that the vehicle is airbourne and not just bouncing!).

Jon

On Fri, 7 May 2004 09:51:16 +0100, Jon Senior
wrote:

In article , says...
Jon Senior wrote:

If I ever manage to get the project off the ground, I'll put up some
web
pages.


A flying bent! Ambitious

Just needs wings. Apparently, someone has done the maths, and concluded
that it is possible to build a HP Helicopter. The only requirement is a
person capable of producing 400W for 45 seconds

Isn't this a bit like saying HP vehicles of any sort are possible if only
human beings could produce more power for a sustained time?


(The time constraint is
required to prove that the vehicle is airbourne and not just bouncing!).

Okay, this has an engine but I wouldn't mind a go in one...

http://www.rexfeatures.com/features/449633/

Colin

In article ,
says...
Isn't this a bit like saying HP vehicles of any sort are possible if only
human beings could produce more power for a sustained time?

400W is actually very close to possible at the minute. A suitable guinea
pig and some serious steroids should make it a reality.

Okay, this has an engine but I wouldn't mind a go in one...

http://www.rexfeatures.com/features/449633/

I find the idea of the average American commuting on one of these
marginally terrifying. The only upside is that they probably start dying
in serious numbers.

Jon