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Old June 12th 21, 11:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Default Bikes and Riding

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 1:53:19 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 12:30:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 9:56:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 7:55:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 1:13:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:55:38 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 3:11:10 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Supposedly this is a technical advice group. There is in general very little of that and instead people who know very little about the subject criticizing those who do.

Be that as it may, this is still a bicycle technical advice group and should remain as such with the usual flights of fancy by those who think while they are riding.

I use Chinese Carbon deep Aero wheels. Since these are widely used around the world it isn't as if they don't know what they are doing. I've used them a lot and the one real weakness is that carbon simply brakes crappy. This is somewhat ameliorated by using Campagnolo carbon specific brake shoes, but it is still a problem if not as bad.

Aluminum rims as everyone knows stop quite well though there has recently been arguments of whether disks are better still. My experience with disks is that they are too far in the opposite direction and are far too easy to lock the wheels. Being KING of fall downs I know what that can mean.

So I have bought Campagnolo and Fulcrum Italian aluminum wheels quite a bit but then miss the aero advantage of the carbon wheels.

This was changed by the Pro-Lite Brachiano wheels that are 42 mm Aero section aluminum wheels. These wheels are undetectably less aero than the 50 mm carbon wheels I've been using. Their one weakness is that they are set up for Tubeless use which means that it is difficult to mount and dismount tires for repairs. Not impossible on the roads but neither is it user friendly.

So I have turned to Chinese carbon aero section wheels that have aluminum braking surfaces and clincher design. These mount and dismount wheels just like the old time wheels did.https://www.ebay.com/itm/20238188248...53.m2749.l2649 Superteam wheels are very well built and obviously constructed on the machine i previously described. They arrived perfectly straight and round not showing any problems whatsoever.

They have an added advantage. The failure mode of Aero carbon wheels is that if you overfill them (put in too much pressure) the carbon wheels will delaminate. These Superteam wheels with aluminum braking surfaces have an entire aluminum rim embedded in them and should be completely proof against that failure.

They are more expensive to replace than the disks and pads on a disk bike but not by much as you can see. And these prices are a lot higher than they were under Trump

So there is an answer to poor braking and Aero sections that doesn't explode your pocketbook.
Do you actually ride down the road on those wheels -- with the giant, fluorescent puke-green SUPER TEAM logos? That's like screaming, "I'm riding cheap Chinese carbon wheels!" https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kWcAA...NT/s-l1600.jpg I'd be embarrassed. You should hit those with a heat gun and peel off the logos, assuming the heat doesn't cause the sidewalls to delaminate.

-- Jay Beattie.
Maybe with matching colors of the frame and cycling clothes...Nah......
I hate to point this out to you but they are the same colors as my Tinkoff team kit.
You wear Euro trash team kit? Really?

BTW, how on earth can you tell whether the SUPER TEAM wheels are any good? Its nice they [claim to] use Toray T700 CF, which is good raw material, but who knows about the lay-up or resin quality. Also, they have $40 hubs. https://tinyurl.com/m652nwu8 These are CNC'd and not forged (apparently).. Soft flanges, teeny front bearings and probably no-name 6902/6802 bearings, unknown spokes, nipples -- el cheapo pawl/spring and a soft freehub body..

Have you ever changed the pressed-in hub bearings in one of these Chinese commodity hubs? Do you have the tools? I have the tools and made what I was missing, and changing the bearings is tedious -- and with your cognitive issues, you may have difficulty. You would be better off with some ho-made wheels with Shimano hubs and maybe some aluminum semi-aero rims, or if you have to have a Campy cassette, maybe some Miche hubs.
https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-w.../11839846.html. Get good spokes, and you're still in the $400 range and have a bullet proof wheel at about the same weight -- just not as Chinese or as aero. BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.

How can you tell that Bontrager wheels are made properly? They're probably made on the same assembly line. On these hubs I have about 10,000 miles of experience without a problem. My cop friend and a heavy friend have to replace their Mavic Kyseriums yearly.

As for the hubs; Chris Robinson said that he has built a dozen wheels with those same hubs and he thinks they are great. Since he was the team mechanic for 7-11 I'm more likely to take his word for it than yours. And besides, the hubs on mine are R34 - carbon fiber hubs with double drive side bearings that I have a lot of experience with. I have one set of these wheels that are 6 years old. And no problems despite being a 20 and 24 spoke count. And the brake tracks show wear but not enough to worry about. None of the layup is showing. Can you say the same about your wheels?

They should be triple drive side bearings -- one in the hub shell and two in the freehub body. And for all you know, they could be POS bearings, as is typical with the Chi-Tai cheap hubs. I've had Novatec OE hubs and had to replace the freehub bearings on those, and they're a step-up from Powerway.. You also have soft hub-shells and freehub bodies that can get chewed up, including the pawl engagement splines in the hub shell. FYI, your flanges and bearing seats are aluminum -- just the center section is CF.

No matter how you slice it, cheap is cheap. Go compare your hubs to an expensive set of DTs or CK or WI. Those hubs are in a different league.

I'm hard on my equipment and prefer better bearings, forged shells and easier serviceability. I also get EP on Roval wheels -- so for your Powerway price, I get DT hubs. I did pay full Wiggle discount price for my C35s with ordinary cup/cone hubs. https://www.cyclist.co.uk/shimano/11...ace-c35-review 8 years old and going strong, although the front brake track is pretty beaten up. The hubs are flawless and easily serviced. I have HED Ardennes on the fast rain bike. The HED hubs are a bit of black-box and more like the Chi-Tai standard, although they have a really robust 5-pawl freehub body instead of the three pawl on your hubs. They're also through-axle. I was going to build that set on some WI or Shimano hubs, but I got lazy an there was a sale. Belgian rims are incredibly expensive, and it was actually cheaper to buy the whole wheel on sale at Western Bikeworks than build it.

I built my commuter wheels -- ****ty M525 hubs on Velocity Touring Discs (a discontinued rim), and they have lasted over a decade. I don't even remember when I built them. The spokes cost more than the hubs, and the rims were a sale-table item from Universal. The front alternate dyno wheel on a Sun CR18 is newer. There is really nothing better from a serviceability and durability standpoint than a standard, well-sealed cup-and-cone hub, SS spokes and a good aluminum rim. I suppose with CF, you don't get rim cracking, but I'm not running CF on a commuter with a rack.

BTW, Bontrager rebranded DT hubs for a long while, but I don't know who currently supplies the hubs for their wheels. I haven't looked at a Trek BOM for a long time but would assume the manufacturers vary depending on where you are in the product line. And with Bontrager, you get a warranty and a shop.

Uh, yeah Jay, you have better stuff. OK. My direct experience with the stuff you like to recommend shows me it is crap. Mavic made decent wheels but not the one's that people ride. They ride the superlight, break in mere months sets and then complain because they need to be replaced so often. Most of the Look carbon framesets and many components are made in China. They are considered the second best in the world after Time which is also made in China but with a different method and material.

As I said, I have 6 years on one of those sets of carbon clincher wheels. And those wheels react to side winds better than the Kyseriums I had. And the Campy Neurons I had broke on the third ride.

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