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  #41  
Old May 28th 21, 05:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Airborne

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.


Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.


Hmmm. Groves was an administrator. Oppenheimer was the den mother for a lot of brilliant scientists who developed the bomb. Truman dropped them. He could have said "no." I'd give him the nod.

-- Jay Beattie.

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  #42  
Old May 28th 21, 10:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Airborne

On Thu, 27 May 2021 16:53:12 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:13:38 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.


If you don't know anything about the world around you why are you commenting all of the time? Curtis LeMay loaded the entire American bomber fleet full of napalm and dropped it on Japanese industrial centers which burning alive all of the men, women and children in those areas and destroying 80% of the industrial base of Japan. He could have burned Japan back into the stone age if Truman didn't give orders to drop the nuclear bombs. There would have been absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made.


Shame on him! After all he was doing exactly what SAC was subsequently
charged with doing. Destroy the enemy's ability to make
war. And just as was done in Europe he did it by destroying the place
into submission.

It might also be noted that LeMay was serving in the Air force of the
nation who incarcerated the Japanese immigrants and those who were
citizens of the U.S. in concentration camps. And I might add locked up
some Chinese right along with the Japanese... It appeared that the
USians couldn't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese.


For someone that claims to have been in the ****ing Air Force since the Air Force began, perhaps you ought to at least know something about it you nitwit.


I do, which is why I asked since, as I wrote, within SAC General LeMay
was viewed with a great deal of respect. Even the story about him"
when asked to remove his cigar as they were refueling and it might
cause a fire and replied, "It wouldn't dare!" was part of his
mystique.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #43  
Old May 28th 21, 10:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Airborne

On Thu, 27 May 2021 20:04:07 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.


Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.


And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.


The thought was that unless the Japanese surrendered that they would
fight some sort of guerilla war in the mountains. And historically
various factions did just that so it was possible.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #44  
Old May 28th 21, 01:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Airborne

On 5/27/2021 11:39 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.


Hmmm. Groves was an administrator. Oppenheimer was the den mother for a lot of brilliant scientists who developed the bomb. Truman dropped them. He could have said "no." I'd give him the nod.

-- Jay Beattie.

+1
no argument.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #45  
Old May 28th 21, 03:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Airborne

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.


Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.


I'm not saying that bombing Japan back into the stone age wasn't justified. But napalm from a sky absolutely black with every bomber that America had both 4 engine and 2 engine was too much. It had no justification because it didn't have any real targets. It simply killed entirely indiscriminately. When you have the air superiority to take fleets that size over an enemy, you have the air superiority to be discriminant with who you are killing.
  #46  
Old May 28th 21, 03:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Airborne

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 9:39:32 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion..

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.

Hmmm. Groves was an administrator. Oppenheimer was the den mother for a lot of brilliant scientists who developed the bomb. Truman dropped them. He could have said "no." I'd give him the nod.


The nuclear bombs killed FAR less people than LeMay did. You can say that LeMay was a winner but don't tell that to the survivors of a napalm attack.
  #47  
Old May 28th 21, 03:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Airborne

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 2:10:13 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 16:53:12 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:13:38 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.
Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.


If you don't know anything about the world around you why are you commenting all of the time? Curtis LeMay loaded the entire American bomber fleet full of napalm and dropped it on Japanese industrial centers which burning alive all of the men, women and children in those areas and destroying 80% of the industrial base of Japan. He could have burned Japan back into the stone age if Truman didn't give orders to drop the nuclear bombs. There would have been absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made.

Shame on him! After all he was doing exactly what SAC was subsequently
charged with doing. Destroy the enemy's ability to make
war. And just as was done in Europe he did it by destroying the place
into submission.

It might also be noted that LeMay was serving in the Air force of the
nation who incarcerated the Japanese immigrants and those who were
citizens of the U.S. in concentration camps. And I might add locked up
some Chinese right along with the Japanese... It appeared that the
USians couldn't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese.

For someone that claims to have been in the ****ing Air Force since the Air Force began, perhaps you ought to at least know something about it you nitwit.

I do, which is why I asked since, as I wrote, within SAC General LeMay
was viewed with a great deal of respect. Even the story about him"
when asked to remove his cigar as they were refueling and it might
cause a fire and replied, "It wouldn't dare!" was part of his
mystique.


General LeMay had palsy and he kept a cigar in his mouth because it would absorb the spittle that would slip in a constant stream out of his lips that couldn't close.
  #48  
Old May 28th 21, 03:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Airborne

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 5:54:50 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 11:39 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion..

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.


Hmmm. Groves was an administrator. Oppenheimer was the den mother for a lot of brilliant scientists who developed the bomb. Truman dropped them. He could have said "no." I'd give him the nod.

-- Jay Beattie.

+1
no argument.


Presidents are not Generals, they know little except the big picture. LeMay said that he could have destroyed the entirety of Japan without the A-bombs. And he intended to. What could be said was that he brought the horrors of a real war to Japan. But It could have been done more efficiently with real bombs dropped on real factories and now with entire towns and villages burned to the ground without a living soul surviving. Or those who were merely on the borders spending the rest of their lives covered in burn scars. Napalm was justified against pill boxes because there was no other way to stop them. But dropping it in bombs was nothing more than terrorism.
  #49  
Old May 28th 21, 05:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Airborne

On 5/28/2021 9:03 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.


I'm not saying that bombing Japan back into the stone age wasn't justified. But napalm from a sky absolutely black with every bomber that America had both 4 engine and 2 engine was too much. It had no justification because it didn't have any real targets. It simply killed entirely indiscriminately. When you have the air superiority to take fleets that size over an enemy, you have the air superiority to be discriminant with who you are killing.


One ought to pause when judging decisions in extremis at
that moment against our later standards and the breadth of time.

also, Nanking, Manila, etc.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #50  
Old May 28th 21, 05:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Airborne

On 5/28/2021 12:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:


One ought to pause when judging decisions in extremis at that moment
against our later standards and the breadth of time.

+1

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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