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  #81  
Old June 5th 21, 07:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default Airborne

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 2:00:40 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Received the Airborne and have started assembly. The Drive Side cup won't start though the threads look perfectly OK. Titanium is a little troublesome so I will take it up to Chris Robinson since he's worked on it all. He was Andy Hampsten's Team 7-11 mechanic the year he won the Giro under those awful conditions. I sure as hell would have not wanted to be a team mechanic then. Bob Roll was given winter clothes for Andy at the BOTTOM of the climb and actually caught Andy at the top. That allowed Andy to make it to the finish when everyone else was dropping out.

I have aluminum bars and stem, all Centaur components and heavy Chinese Aero 50 mm wheels. It looks like the finished bike will be lighter than the Trek Emonda which was 17.5 lbs. even. There is plenty of clearance for 28 mm wheels and the steering head on the Profile Designs fork is aluminum 1" I might buy a new fork after awhile since those 1" Profile Design forks are still around NOS.

Airborne had their own headset made and it is still in perfect condition. Though it isn't as if the headset takes much in the way of loads.

I think that this will ride a great deal better than the Douglas Titanium.. But that remains to be seen.

Talk about stupid, I took my rear wheel into the shop because it sounded to me like a bearing had broken its cage and the bearings were rolling around in the race free. I also took in the new fork so that he could exchange the Airborne crown race.

The race exchange took only 5 minutes and then he pulled the tire and the tube and the rim strip off of the wheel and turned it and a couple of pieces of garbage came out of the rim. Well, that was a cheap repair.

I came back and in 10 minutes reinstalled the new fork, the expansion nut, the front brake and both wheels.

The hubs are Chinese and I was surprised that Chris said that they were good, light and reliable hubs and that he has built several dozen wheels using them. The new wheels will have the R34 hubs - the only difference will be that the hubs are mostly carbon fiber. Tube sections of carbon fiber are about as reliable as you can get since it is easy to make them void free. The problem with carbon fiber is complex cross sections because basically it is difficult to make a press that will apply sufficient and even pressure. Trek solved the problem by making male molds and female molds. They allows them to make very complex structures that are void free. But it is also an expensive system and keeps you from changing shapes willy-nilly like other manufacturers are going all the time.

The Power Torque cups are supposed to come in Monday and mail doesn't arrive until 4 pm on Mondays. I have some Phil Wood heavy grease that I will put on the cups and since they're English threads they won't come out or even work loose. Yesterday I went on on a flat ride into the damned wind again on the Douglas Ti and my round trip was 0.8 mph average faster than my previous record. Both of these times was with the stop lights MOSTLY being with me. I've been practicing trying to hold a steady cadence. I'm ending up in higher gears that before but I can't hold that for more than 5 minutes at a time. I must have been much faster before because I hardly have a Vastus Medialus and before, it stuck sharply out and you couldn't cover it with your cupped hand. That is the muscle you use accelerating and sprinting.

But I should be able to hold speed climbing better than I presently can so I'll work on that instead of being able to sprint up to 40 mph like I could before.

Jay, how is your riding coming along? Have you been getting any age related slowing up yet? 6 years ago I was improving on every front. Now I am working hard to stay even but that may be because my mileage is so much less now.. Going from 6,000 miles and 250,000 feet to 1,500 miles and 25,000 feet has to have an effect. In 2019 It wasn't until fall that I began feeling good riding. But then I could ride right up the stuff that was painful before. Right now I seldom have those painful bouts but I'm riding pretty damned slow. I have some really bad riding
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  #82  
Old June 5th 21, 08:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default Airborne

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 11:40:30 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 2:00:40 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Received the Airborne and have started assembly. The Drive Side cup won't start though the threads look perfectly OK. Titanium is a little troublesome so I will take it up to Chris Robinson since he's worked on it all. He was Andy Hampsten's Team 7-11 mechanic the year he won the Giro under those awful conditions. I sure as hell would have not wanted to be a team mechanic then. Bob Roll was given winter clothes for Andy at the BOTTOM of the climb and actually caught Andy at the top. That allowed Andy to make it to the finish when everyone else was dropping out.

I have aluminum bars and stem, all Centaur components and heavy Chinese Aero 50 mm wheels. It looks like the finished bike will be lighter than the Trek Emonda which was 17.5 lbs. even. There is plenty of clearance for 28 mm wheels and the steering head on the Profile Designs fork is aluminum 1" I might buy a new fork after awhile since those 1" Profile Design forks are still around NOS.

Airborne had their own headset made and it is still in perfect condition. Though it isn't as if the headset takes much in the way of loads.

I think that this will ride a great deal better than the Douglas Titanium. But that remains to be seen.

Talk about stupid, I took my rear wheel into the shop because it sounded to me like a bearing had broken its cage and the bearings were rolling around in the race free. I also took in the new fork so that he could exchange the Airborne crown race.

The race exchange took only 5 minutes and then he pulled the tire and the tube and the rim strip off of the wheel and turned it and a couple of pieces of garbage came out of the rim. Well, that was a cheap repair.

I came back and in 10 minutes reinstalled the new fork, the expansion nut, the front brake and both wheels.

The hubs are Chinese and I was surprised that Chris said that they were good, light and reliable hubs and that he has built several dozen wheels using them. The new wheels will have the R34 hubs - the only difference will be that the hubs are mostly carbon fiber. Tube sections of carbon fiber are about as reliable as you can get since it is easy to make them void free. The problem with carbon fiber is complex cross sections because basically it is difficult to make a press that will apply sufficient and even pressure. Trek solved the problem by making male molds and female molds. They allows them to make very complex structures that are void free. But it is also an expensive system and keeps you from changing shapes willy-nilly like other manufacturers are going all the time.

The Power Torque cups are supposed to come in Monday and mail doesn't arrive until 4 pm on Mondays. I have some Phil Wood heavy grease that I will put on the cups and since they're English threads they won't come out or even work loose. Yesterday I went on on a flat ride into the damned wind again on the Douglas Ti and my round trip was 0.8 mph average faster than my previous record. Both of these times was with the stop lights MOSTLY being with me. I've been practicing trying to hold a steady cadence. I'm ending up in higher gears that before but I can't hold that for more than 5 minutes at a time. I must have been much faster before because I hardly have a Vastus Medialus and before, it stuck sharply out and you couldn't cover it with your cupped hand. That is the muscle you use accelerating and sprinting.

But I should be able to hold speed climbing better than I presently can so I'll work on that instead of being able to sprint up to 40 mph like I could before.

Jay, how is your riding coming along? Have you been getting any age related slowing up yet? 6 years ago I was improving on every front. Now I am working hard to stay even but that may be because my mileage is so much less now. Going from 6,000 miles and 250,000 feet to 1,500 miles and 25,000 feet has to have an effect. In 2019 It wasn't until fall that I began feeling good riding. But then I could ride right up the stuff that was painful before.. Right now I seldom have those painful bouts but I'm riding pretty damned slow. I have some really bad riding

Yesterday the special wheels and the Power Torque cups came in so they went together almost immediately. I had a chain sitting there so I didn't use the Connex - yet. The only thing left to do now is to install the cables and the bar tape.
  #83  
Old June 5th 21, 08:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 2,041
Default Airborne

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 8:57:10 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.

Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?

Question Russell, who founded Airborne?


https://airbornebicycles.com/
https://airbornebicycles.com/pages/about

I'll guess you mean Airborne bicycles. Google search turned up the above links.
I've never owned on of those bike brands. But it appears they were a cheap, lower priced bike maker. Now its not a universal truth that cheap means low quality and bad. But there is a high correlation. You brag about your Colnago frames all the time. High quality you think. And you try to sell them on CraigsList for super expensive prices too. So you seem to correlate high quality and high price. I am merely doing the exact same thing as you except at the other end of the pricing scale. You're not a hypocrite are you?
  #84  
Old June 5th 21, 09:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 2,041
Default Airborne

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:13:38 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

If you don't know anything about the world around you why are you commenting all of the time? Curtis LeMay loaded the entire American bomber fleet full of napalm and dropped it on Japanese industrial centers which burning alive all of the men, women and children in those areas and destroying 80% of the industrial base of Japan. He could have burned Japan back into the stone age if Truman didn't give orders to drop the nuclear bombs. There would have been absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made.

For someone that claims to have been in the ****ing Air Force since the Air Force began, perhaps you ought to at least know something about it you nitwit.


Are you suggesting LeMay got his bad reputation as you are suggesting from dropping napalm on Japanese cities. Just like we had been doing for several years in Germany. Did his staff and equal generals object to this style of warfare? Even though Eisenhower and Roosevelt and Churchill had been doing it for years in Germany? USA and Britain fire bombed Dresden Germany in February 1945. That fire bombing is very famous. The USA fire bombed Tokyo in March 1945. A month later. So LeMay just copied European strategy it appears. And you say this gave him a bad reputation?

As for your very false and fictitious claims that "absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made." Wow!!!! You are foolish. Every single solitary army, navy, marine, air force person knew that it would be extremely costly in lives and machinery to invade Japan. NO MATTER how many bombs and fires we dropped on them. No one thought we could fire bomb or explosive bomb Japan back to the stone age and beat them or get them to surrender without a huge invasion. All of the island battles where the Japanese fought to the death and did not surrender at all taught the USA that Japan was not going to stop. Unless something like the atomic bomb was developed and used as a demonstration. The Japanese were going to fight to the death no matter what. Either by American bullets or starvation. Made no difference to them how they died. Death is death.
  #85  
Old June 5th 21, 09:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 2,041
Default Airborne

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 9:13:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 5:54:50 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 11:39 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay.. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.

Hmmm. Groves was an administrator. Oppenheimer was the den mother for a lot of brilliant scientists who developed the bomb. Truman dropped them. He could have said "no." I'd give him the nod.

-- Jay Beattie.

+1
no argument.

Presidents are not Generals, they know little except the big picture. LeMay said that he could have destroyed the entirety of Japan without the A-bombs. And he intended to. What could be said was that he brought the horrors of a real war to Japan. But It could have been done more efficiently with real bombs dropped on real factories and now with entire towns and villages burned to the ground without a living soul surviving. Or those who were merely on the borders spending the rest of their lives covered in burn scars. Napalm was justified against pill boxes because there was no other way to stop them. But dropping it in bombs was nothing more than terrorism.


Tom I thought you were a genius. Or at least that is what you have told us repeatedly. The current missiles may be able to hit exact spots in the world. Within inches or maybe millimeters. But that is due to GPS and lots and lots of satellites up in the sky. I think GPS was developed during one of the wars. But the bombs used back in WW2 were not "intelligent" like the ones today. They were just dropped out of the belly of a plane and landed wherever they landed. I've heard with Hiroshima or Nagasaki one of those bombs missed its target by several miles. But it didn't really matter much. There was no precision with WW2 bombing. No ability to hit specific buildings or factories. Bombs were just dropped out of airplanes on a 10 square mile city and fell where they fell. I'm guessing napalm was used because it does not have to be specific. Bombs only blow up what they land on. Few hundred square yards or so. One building. But napalm burns up the few hundred square yards and then keeps on burning up several more square miles. In the right circumstances, its far more effective than bombs. Drop napalm and you burn up 10 square miles. Yeah. Drop equal number of conventional bombs and you blow up 1/2 square mile. 20 to 1 ratio. Even someone like you with no college education can figure that one out.
  #86  
Old June 5th 21, 09:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 2,041
Default Airborne

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 5:25:50 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 1:50:30 p.m. UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/28/2021 12:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 9:22:35 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/28/2021 9:03 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:04:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.

Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

And the Marines who fully appreciated not landing on Honshu
thanks largely to him and Leslie Groves.

I'm not saying that bombing Japan back into the stone age wasn't justified. But napalm from a sky absolutely black with every bomber that America had both 4 engine and 2 engine was too much. It had no justification because it didn't have any real targets. It simply killed entirely indiscriminately. When you have the air superiority to take fleets that size over an enemy, you have the air superiority to be discriminant with who you are killing.

One ought to pause when judging decisions in extremis at
that moment against our later standards and the breadth of time.

also, Nanking, Manila, etc.
Andrew, I realize the gravity of war. I was in one. But believe me what I say that the Japanese were in no position to stop the bombing campaign that was mounted against them and you simply cannot use ANY means. That is why we brought the Germans before a world court and killed their commanding officers. There are some extremes to which you do not go especially when you have the upper hand. The estimations were 250-900 thousand dead and almost entirely civilians. The Japanese command no doubt was evil and told the Japanese people that the Americans would torture and kill them. So what did LeMay do? He tortured and killed them.

Facts are one thing (I note you did not address Nanking and
related campaigns or US, Britich and Dutch POWs routine
beheadings and fatal tortures for that matter). Judgements
are quite another.

BTW the firebombing resulted almost accidentally when it was
discovered that enough incendiaries on wooden targets could
make their own micro weather system and spread wildfire. Not
'like' a wildfire, but actual wildfire. LeMay used that
information effectively.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

It was also a fantastic way to destroy all the little household factories making stuff for the Japanese war effort.

Cheers


I thought of that after posting my prior comment. Germany and Japan had realized after the first mass bombings that having big factories as targets was bad. And had setup small factories for production in small hidden residential basements, barns in the country, small shops in small towns, etc. They were that smart. So to stop or interrupt production of war materials, you had to use a scorched earth approach. Which the Allied forces did by bombing anything and everything. Conventional and fire.
  #87  
Old June 5th 21, 09:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 2,041
Default Airborne

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 6:03:26 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
Go back and read newspapers from that error and see what the U.S. or
British public thought about saturation bombing. In both cases they
were terror stricken when it happened to them and vastly in support of
it when it happened to the "other guy".


You mean if we discover any voter fraud or bad ballots in our election audit it means the whole vote is fraudulent. And we won, they lost. But if we introduce and pass mass voter suppression, especially for those Democratic counties or cities or "darky" people, its good and righteous and the American way. Imagine that. Unbelievable. Or hypocritical. Take your pick.


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #88  
Old June 5th 21, 11:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Airborne

On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:13:38 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.
Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.

If you don't know anything about the world around you why are you commenting all of the time? Curtis LeMay loaded the entire American bomber fleet full of napalm and dropped it on Japanese industrial centers which burning alive all of the men, women and children in those areas and destroying 80% of the industrial base of Japan. He could have burned Japan back into the stone age if Truman didn't give orders to drop the nuclear bombs. There would have been absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made.

For someone that claims to have been in the ****ing Air Force since the Air Force began, perhaps you ought to at least know something about it you nitwit.


Are you suggesting LeMay got his bad reputation as you are suggesting from dropping napalm on Japanese cities. Just like we had been doing for several years in Germany. Did his staff and equal generals object to this style of warfare? Even though Eisenhower and Roosevelt and Churchill had been doing it for years in Germany? USA and Britain fire bombed Dresden Germany in February 1945. That fire bombing is very famous. The USA fire bombed Tokyo in March 1945. A month later. So LeMay just copied European strategy it appears. And you say this gave him a bad reputation?

You have to understand that Tommy was born in 1944 so on 9 March 1945
when the U.S. Air Force first firebombed Japan he might have been 1
year old, depending on what month he was born in, and while it is
possibly that Tommy was a precocious child it is apparent that he
could have knew nothing about what the U.S. Military was doing half
the world away.

As for your very false and fictitious claims that "absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made." Wow!!!! You are foolish. Every single solitary army, navy, marine, air force person knew that it would be extremely costly in lives and machinery to invade Japan. NO MATTER how many bombs and fires we dropped on them. No one thought we could fire bomb or explosive bomb Japan back to the stone age and beat them or get them to surrender without a huge invasion. All of the island battles where the Japanese fought to the death and did not surrender at all taught the USA that Japan was not going to stop. Unless something like the atomic bomb was developed and used as a demonstration. The Japanese were going to fight to the death no matter what. Either by American bullets or starvation. Made no difference to them how they died. Death is death.


Well, Tommy quite apparently knows nothing about farming in Japan in
the 1940 - 1950's. I was assigned to an Air Base in Japan, in 1954
which was surrounded on 3 sides by rice fields and I can assure you
that at that time rice growing, rice being the main constituent of the
Japanese diet, was done solely by hand. The only "farming tools" were
hand tools.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #89  
Old June 6th 21, 12:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Airborne

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 3:54:43 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:13:38 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.
Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.
If you don't know anything about the world around you why are you commenting all of the time? Curtis LeMay loaded the entire American bomber fleet full of napalm and dropped it on Japanese industrial centers which burning alive all of the men, women and children in those areas and destroying 80% of the industrial base of Japan. He could have burned Japan back into the stone age if Truman didn't give orders to drop the nuclear bombs. There would have been absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made.

For someone that claims to have been in the ****ing Air Force since the Air Force began, perhaps you ought to at least know something about it you nitwit.


Are you suggesting LeMay got his bad reputation as you are suggesting from dropping napalm on Japanese cities. Just like we had been doing for several years in Germany. Did his staff and equal generals object to this style of warfare? Even though Eisenhower and Roosevelt and Churchill had been doing it for years in Germany? USA and Britain fire bombed Dresden Germany in February 1945. That fire bombing is very famous. The USA fire bombed Tokyo in March 1945. A month later. So LeMay just copied European strategy it appears. And you say this gave him a bad reputation?

You have to understand that Tommy was born in 1944 so on 9 March 1945
when the U.S. Air Force first firebombed Japan he might have been 1
year old, depending on what month he was born in, and while it is
possibly that Tommy was a precocious child it is apparent that he
could have knew nothing about what the U.S. Military was doing half
the world away.
As for your very false and fictitious claims that "absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made." Wow!!!! You are foolish. Every single solitary army, navy, marine, air force person knew that it would be extremely costly in lives and machinery to invade Japan. NO MATTER how many bombs and fires we dropped on them. No one thought we could fire bomb or explosive bomb Japan back to the stone age and beat them or get them to surrender without a huge invasion. All of the island battles where the Japanese fought to the death and did not surrender at all taught the USA that Japan was not going to stop. Unless something like the atomic bomb was developed and used as a demonstration. The Japanese were going to fight to the death no matter what. Either by American bullets or starvation. Made no difference to them how they died. Death is death.

Well, Tommy quite apparently knows nothing about farming in Japan in
the 1940 - 1950's. I was assigned to an Air Base in Japan, in 1954
which was surrounded on 3 sides by rice fields and I can assure you
that at that time rice growing, rice being the main constituent of the
Japanese diet, was done solely by hand. The only "farming tools" were
hand tools.


Here our expert on war goes again. 9 years after the war and after huge reconstruction efforts by America, John tells us that Japanese rice farmers could successfully grow rice in an area minimally effected by the war. Doesn't this just warm your heart with the knowledge he brings to the group? By the way John, what part of "Industrialized" didn't you understand?
  #90  
Old June 6th 21, 02:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Airborne

On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 16:51:49 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 3:54:43 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:13:38 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 7:05:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2021 8:57 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:21:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
While Titanium is a good material, there are so many possibilities for an error in construction that it is probably a bad idea to buy an el cheap producto in that material.
Like buying an Airborne titanium frame? Like you did?
Question Russell, who founded Airborne?

Gen Ridgeway, 82d Division, 1942.

HA HA, I watched a podcast of Victor David Hansen who was discussing General Patten. He had a very bad reputation as did General Curtis LeMay. But it turns out that if Eisenhower and Ridgeway had listened to Patten he would have shortened the war and probably saved 400,000 lives. Seem like most of the other Generals didn't like Patten because he was a rich man that came from a filthy rich family and was a college football and polo champion.
Did General Curtis LeMay have a bad reputation? Certainly he didn't
within SAC.
If you don't know anything about the world around you why are you commenting all of the time? Curtis LeMay loaded the entire American bomber fleet full of napalm and dropped it on Japanese industrial centers which burning alive all of the men, women and children in those areas and destroying 80% of the industrial base of Japan. He could have burned Japan back into the stone age if Truman didn't give orders to drop the nuclear bombs. There would have been absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made.

For someone that claims to have been in the ****ing Air Force since the Air Force began, perhaps you ought to at least know something about it you nitwit.

Are you suggesting LeMay got his bad reputation as you are suggesting from dropping napalm on Japanese cities. Just like we had been doing for several years in Germany. Did his staff and equal generals object to this style of warfare? Even though Eisenhower and Roosevelt and Churchill had been doing it for years in Germany? USA and Britain fire bombed Dresden Germany in February 1945. That fire bombing is very famous. The USA fire bombed Tokyo in March 1945. A month later. So LeMay just copied European strategy it appears. And you say this gave him a bad reputation?

You have to understand that Tommy was born in 1944 so on 9 March 1945
when the U.S. Air Force first firebombed Japan he might have been 1
year old, depending on what month he was born in, and while it is
possibly that Tommy was a precocious child it is apparent that he
could have knew nothing about what the U.S. Military was doing half
the world away.
As for your very false and fictitious claims that "absolutely no way for the Japanese to provide even the simplest things for daily life and none of the simplest farming implements could have been made." Wow!!!! You are foolish. Every single solitary army, navy, marine, air force person knew that it would be extremely costly in lives and machinery to invade Japan. NO MATTER how many bombs and fires we dropped on them. No one thought we could fire bomb or explosive bomb Japan back to the stone age and beat them or get them to surrender without a huge invasion. All of the island battles where the Japanese fought to the death and did not surrender at all taught the USA that Japan was not going to stop. Unless something like the atomic bomb was developed and used as a demonstration. The Japanese were going to fight to the death no matter what. Either by American bullets or starvation. Made no difference to them how they died. Death is death.

Well, Tommy quite apparently knows nothing about farming in Japan in
the 1940 - 1950's. I was assigned to an Air Base in Japan, in 1954
which was surrounded on 3 sides by rice fields and I can assure you
that at that time rice growing, rice being the main constituent of the
Japanese diet, was done solely by hand. The only "farming tools" were
hand tools.


Here our expert on war goes again. 9 years after the war and after

huge reconstruction efforts by America, John tells us that Japanese
rice farmers could successfully grow rice in an area minimally
effected by the war. Doesn't this just warm your heart with the
knowledge he brings to the group? By the way John, what part of
"Industrialized" didn't you understand?

Well, apparently more then you do.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/industry
Definition of industry - manufacturing activity as a whole
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/industrialized
industrialize - to introduce industry into (an area) on a large scale.

As for Minimally effected by the war?

Some 7 miles from Tachakawa Air Base which dated back to the 1920's
and was one of several bases tasked with the air defense of Tokyo? The
home of the Ishikawajima Aircraft Manufacturing Company later
renamed the Tachikawa Aircraft Company Ltd. which produced more than
6,000 aircraft. It produced fighters, troop carriers, and bombers.
Prototypes were designed and developed at the manufacturing plant.

Tachikawa was subjected to intense bombing by United States Army Air
Forces XXI Bomber Command 29th Bombardment Group B-29 Superfortresses
during April and June 1945. The Shintentai, an anti-aircraft kamikaze
group, defended the airfield and its manufacturing facilities, however
most of the airfield was rendered unserviceable by the bombing raids,
along with most of the structures and support facilities of the
airfield.

Tommy, you are flailing all around a subject which you so obviously
know nothing at all.

--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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