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  #51  
Old June 4th 21, 12:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Electric Bikes

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 10:43:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 6:01:38 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 13:12:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
On 6/2/21 9:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the same as a good gas driven car.


If it charges via solar like friends do it who live de-facto off grid,
then it's ok. But one fine day it won't be sunny, there is no wind but
one has to run an errand. Then ... it's the gas generator.

Back when I lived on a sailing yacht I got quite interested in off
grid living and read a number of articles about it and an interesting
fact was that every one of these off-grid people had a liquid fuel
fired generator set out in the back yard :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.


Yes, kind of humorous or ironic. But police today still carry night sticks. Even though they carry high capacity semi auto pistols holding 15+ rounds and several spare magazines. They might have to kill some many peaceful protesters that their only back up is to beat people in the head with a night stick.


So what is your solution? No guns or "night stick"? Bare knuckles
only?

--
Cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #52  
Old June 4th 21, 01:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Electric Bikes

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.

https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.



According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou


Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #53  
Old June 4th 21, 01:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Electric Bikes

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 15:51:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2021 11:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:03:51 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2021 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:25:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Out of curiosity has your acquaintance ever calculated the pay back on
the system?
Not as far as I know, and I doubt the payback matters to him. He's
extremely committed to environmental issues. For him, his system is just
The Right Thing To Do.


What is the environmental damage from the construction and then destruction of solar panel arrays? This is not a minor problem. Do you have any idea of the maintenance problem of large dams? ...


Not to mention the environmental damage from mining and burning coal,
drilling for oil, converting huge portions of our corn crop into fuel...


Errr... I believe that the corn turned into fuel is grown in addition
to the normal crop grown for food. In fact I remember the loud shouts
of joy when the farmers found that they could get paid for growing
even more corn to be turn into alchol:-)


Tom, I think much wiser minds than yours have properly considered issues
long ago.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #54  
Old June 4th 21, 01:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Electric Bikes

On 6/3/2021 6:18 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 10:43:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 6:01:38 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 13:12:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
On 6/2/21 9:12 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.

Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
You voice the problem of E-cars that is the unspoken problem. The fossil fuels STILL have to be burned to generate the electricity to charge the cars. The combination of efficiency of both sources is the same as a good gas driven car.


If it charges via solar like friends do it who live de-facto off grid,
then it's ok. But one fine day it won't be sunny, there is no wind but
one has to run an errand. Then ... it's the gas generator.
Back when I lived on a sailing yacht I got quite interested in off
grid living and read a number of articles about it and an interesting
fact was that every one of these off-grid people had a liquid fuel
fired generator set out in the back yard :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.


Yes, kind of humorous or ironic. But police today still carry night sticks. Even though they carry high capacity semi auto pistols holding 15+ rounds and several spare magazines. They might have to kill some many peaceful protesters that their only back up is to beat people in the head with a night stick.


So what is your solution? No guns or "night stick"? Bare knuckles
only?


Speaking from experience, a 'mahogany shampoo' definitely
makes the point.

"whatever you're doing, stop doing that". "yes, sir."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #55  
Old June 4th 21, 01:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Electric Bikes

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.



According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou


Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #56  
Old June 4th 21, 01:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Electric Bikes

On 6/3/2021 8:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments
can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are
effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the
cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.


Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those
foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to
pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable
and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to
build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according
to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the
Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so
foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's
lives better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists here.* All the
mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed
sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave
for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything
except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain
but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or
pregnant.

Lou


Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few *instances).


Tom also uses the terms interchangeably.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #57  
Old June 4th 21, 01:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Electric Bikes

On 6/3/2021 7:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 8:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But
governments can pretend otherwise and even issue
reports saying they are effective and efficient when
they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so
well in the cities that you can tell they really know
what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.


Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your
knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using
windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of
their below sea level ground to make it livable and
arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred
Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious
waste of money according to you. Dutch government was
probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in
the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping
and improving your country and making people's lives
better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists
here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment,
healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years,
disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least
16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed
anything except for my coming pension. All those payed
premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got
seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou

Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a
few instances).


Tom also uses the terms interchangeably.



AFAICT Mr Slocumb is the only person who thinks one is
different from the other. Even Marx, where he distinguishes,
says socialism is the last step before communism. So, one
might posit that socialists are 'half-baked communists' I
suppose. It's more probably a distinction without a difference.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #58  
Old June 4th 21, 02:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Electric Bikes

On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:23:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou


Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).


True, in fact it almost seems like Marx didn't know what he was
talking about from time to time :-) But the generally modern
definition is that in a Communist system the Government owns and
operates all economic resources, while in a modern Socialist, commonly
referred to as "Social Democracy systems", economic resources may be
privately owned and operated, but of course, taxed by the government.
which in turn supports the people.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #59  
Old June 4th 21, 01:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Electric Bikes

On 6/3/2021 8:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:23:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou

Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).


True, in fact it almost seems like Marx didn't know what he was
talking about from time to time :-) But the generally modern
definition is that in a Communist system the Government owns and
operates all economic resources, while in a modern Socialist, commonly
referred to as "Social Democracy systems", economic resources may be
privately owned and operated, but of course, taxed by the government.
which in turn supports the people.



"supports the people."


After Lenin, that changed. His innovation (much emulated
worldwide down to today) is to support The Party.

I think anyone who's suffered through Marx's printed
flailings would agree with you (and me). His unclear
thoughts were not improved with excessive text.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #60  
Old June 4th 21, 02:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Electric Bikes

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:38:25 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 12:28:56 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2021 10:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology
since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid
battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand
manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to
top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike
in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of
capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a
short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when
they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all
the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not
often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never
seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any
circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll
to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know.
Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design
stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every
single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will
be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man
who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors
were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being
able to charge in minutes and not have any components that
chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly
certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other
issue is that then all the electric vehicle commuters will
want to recharge in 10mins after they got home around 6pm so
they can drive to a nice restaurant with their spouses.
Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the power
grid and ... po0f :-)

So I guess it's inherent and structural that we can't really
judge electric vehicle owners and their anger management
failures

https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/e-bike...ould-kill-you/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

White person! Not black! I thought only blacks had issues with cops. Of course the article does say "The still-at-large suspect" Guessing if he had been black, they would have shot him down in a hail of bullets and called out every SWAT team in the city. But being white I guess we can ignore it. He's a good patriotic American, just like those patriots who broke into the Capitol by smashing windows and bludgeoning the cops with stanchions.

Big 5" wide mountain bike tire e-bike. I always find the rims on those bikes funny. Holes in the rim to allow the tube to bulge through. Weird.

Tell me you moronic fool. Exactly what do you know about what cops do? Some son of a bitch like you believes that cops don't think anything about killing people or that they should stand and make themselves targets.

Why don't you tell us all of the lies about George Floyd as if any of them were true. Tell us how he was being choked to death with a knee on his neck but he could clearly say "I can't breath". Which is exactly what he was saying after he overdosed in the back seat of the car of his drug dealer as the cops pulled him out. Fools like you are a penny a dozen. Why don't you come here to Oakland and walk around east Oakland? You from your smart ass talk would be the perfect target. Tell the blacks here how much you respect them. They would really like that.
 




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