Electric Bikes

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:21:49 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Speaking from experience, a 'mahogany shampoo' definitely
makes the point.

I've not heard that phrase before.



"whatever you're doing, stop doing that". "yes, sir."
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:44:17 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 06:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?
U.S. solar panel manufacturers: a list of American-made solar panels
https://news.energysage.com/u-s-solar-panel-manufacturers-list-american-made-solar-panels/

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

DAM- Jeff!!!!! Why do you keep putting out these simple facts to disprove Tom and make him a Liar?

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 10:47:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:19:28 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 15:51:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2021 11:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:03:51 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2021 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:25:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Out of curiosity has your acquaintance ever calculated the pay back on
the system?
Not as far as I know, and I doubt the payback matters to him. He's
extremely committed to environmental issues. For him, his system is just
The Right Thing To Do.

What is the environmental damage from the construction and then destruction of solar panel arrays? This is not a minor problem. Do you have any idea of the maintenance problem of large dams? ...

Not to mention the environmental damage from mining and burning coal,
drilling for oil, converting huge portions of our corn crop into fuel....

Errr... I believe that the corn turned into fuel is grown in addition
to the normal crop grown for food. In fact I remember the loud shouts
of joy when the farmers found that they could get paid for growing
even more corn to be turn into alchol:-)
Yes. But the over production of corn for fuel leads to lower prices for corn, which might, likely does decrease the net income of said farmers. They are too successful at producing grains that are not really needed. Then the US government has to make higher crop subsidy payments instead of putting the money to pay off the debt. Or offer health insurance to those with none. Or some other wasteful thing. Like new military jet planes. Trump gave many billions of dollars to farmers to buy votes and subsidize them. And growing more corn than we need also introduces more chemicals and fertilizers into the soil which poisons our water. Too much poison in the water is harder to deal with than too little poison.
Tom, I think much wiser minds than yours have properly considered issues
long ago.
All grains regardless of sources are export food to foreign countries that need that sort of thing.

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 11:17:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:44:17 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 06:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?
U.S. solar panel manufacturers: a list of American-made solar panels
https://news.energysage.com/u-s-solar-panel-manufacturers-list-american-made-solar-panels/

DAM- Jeff!!!!! Why do you keep putting out these simple facts to disprove Tom and make him a Liar?
What you mean is that you don't anything at all about it but can tell us everything.

On 6/2/21 3:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 08:56:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 6/2/21 8:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 4:02:12 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 3:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:50:01 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/1/21 11:18 AM, pH wrote:
[...]
The game changer, of course, is the Li ion technology since if was so easy
for uninformed users to kill off their lead acid battery pack.

Li-Ion also has its issues. For example, even top brand manufacturers do
not seem to understand that it is not a good idea to top off a Li-Ion
battery at close to 100% charge and then leave the bike in the garage
that way. This results in premature aging and loss of capacity. The
smarter way is to offer 80% or so which is plenty for a short ride into
town. Then let users top it off in the morning when they expect to go on
a very long ride. In the same way, don't ride it all the way down to
where the low-batt cutoff turns it off, at least not often.
NiMH would be more robust, but that chemistry never seemed to catch on
before Lithium came on the scene.

[...]
Actually, L-ion doesn't like 100% charge under any circumstances.
It's ok if you use it right away. There is always a toll to be paid but
then it's small. Thing is, most people do not know. Sadly, many
engineers don't seem to know either and then they design stuff that
ruins batteries over time by charging them 100% every single time, and
people buy it.
New batteries are on the way. I'm wondering if they will be able to make
super-capacitors work. I read a short paragraph by a man who was a
graphene expert who seemed to think that super capacitors were already
on the horizon.

They say that for a couple of decades now :-)
--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yes, they have and each year they've gotten closer. Being able to charge in minutes and not have any components that chemically degrade is so attractive that I'm fairly certain that this will be the answer.


Afraid we won't live long enough to enjoy that. The other issue is that
then all the electric vehicle commuters will want to recharge in 10mins
after they got home around 6pm so they can drive to a nice restaurant
with their spouses. Suddenly a bazillion kilowatts is demanded from the
power grid and ... po0f :-)

Years ago there was an article in scientific some magazine which
described a scenario of electric cars in Los Angeles. It assumed that
the minimum acceptable electric car would be about the size of a V.W.
Bug and that minimum range was something like 50 miles out and back
and I assume, that long ago, Lead-Acid batteries. The author then
calculated the electrical requirements when everyone arrived home and
plugged in their electric car to charge and there wasn't sufficient
electrical power in L.A. to provide it :-)


And that's when we still had nuclear power stations. People would want
to have that much re-charge within the time it takes to drop their
briefcase, take a shower and dress casually. So 15-20 minutes.

Commuters regularly deplete their batteries. When I worked in the Bay
Area at a client and had a hotel in Redwood City I went to "The Living
Room" every night. Very nice pub. Another guy also came every night. He
had to because his electric vehicle couldn't make it all the way home so
he had dinner there every worknight. His wife didn't mind, she couldn't,
because that was the only way for him to get home.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 09:32:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 8:48:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2021 19:23:25 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/3/2021 7:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:18:53 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Windmills almost never make their own costs back. But governments can pretend otherwise and even issue reports saying they are effective and efficient when they are not.

But trust your Democrat government. They are doing so well in the cities that you can tell they really know what they are doing.
https://www.holland.com/global/touri...20once%20again.

Lou is from the Netherlands. Fool! Compared to your knowledge. Those foolish Dutch have been using windmills for hundreds of years to pump water out of their below sea level ground to make it livable and arable. I bet it cost those Dutch several hundred Guilders to build windmills back in the 1700s. Obvious waste of money according to you. Dutch government was probably the precursor to the Democratic party here in the US for wasting so much money so foolishly. Helping and improving your country and making people's lives better! Laughable.


According do Tom's standards we are all communists here. All the mandatory insurances for unemployment, healthcare, pension, payed sick leave for two years, disability insurance, payed maternity leave for at least 16 weeks.... Democrats in the US? Sissies.
I'm close to retirement now and I (almost) never claimed anything except for my coming pension. All those payed premiums down the drain but I'm happy I never got seriously sick, unemployed, disabled or pregnant.

Lou

Socialists, not communists :-) There is a difference :-0


Enlighten us.

Marx used the terms mostly interchangeably (except in a few
instances).

True, in fact it almost seems like Marx didn't know what he was
talking about from time to time :-) But the generally modern
definition is that in a Communist system the Government owns and
operates all economic resources, while in a modern Socialist, commonly
referred to as "Social Democracy systems", economic resources may be
privately owned and operated, but of course, taxed by the government.
which in turn supports the people.
I'll add that it's silly to hark back to mid-19th century writings to
argue definitions of a word.

The meaning of words changes over time. If you want to argue the
meanings of "socialism" vs. "communism" it's much more logical to use
their currently accepted definitions.

What you mean is that you think that people should accept your definitions.

Why ever not? After all you seem to expect that people will accept
your definitions. Those of an individual who suffered brain damage in
a bicycle crash and by his own statements was apparently insane for at
least two years.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insane
Insane - exhibiting a severely disordered state of mind, unable to
think in a clear or sensible way
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 10:47:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:19:28 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 15:51:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2021 11:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:03:51 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2021 8:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:25:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Out of curiosity has your acquaintance ever calculated the pay back on
the system?
Not as far as I know, and I doubt the payback matters to him. He's
extremely committed to environmental issues. For him, his system is just
The Right Thing To Do.

What is the environmental damage from the construction and then destruction of solar panel arrays? This is not a minor problem. Do you have any idea of the maintenance problem of large dams? ...

Not to mention the environmental damage from mining and burning coal,
drilling for oil, converting huge portions of our corn crop into fuel...

Errr... I believe that the corn turned into fuel is grown in addition
to the normal crop grown for food. In fact I remember the loud shouts
of joy when the farmers found that they could get paid for growing
even more corn to be turn into alchol:-)

Yes. But the over production of corn for fuel leads to lower prices for corn, which might, likely does decrease the net income of said farmers. They are too successful at producing grains that are not really needed. Then the US government has to make higher crop subsidy payments instead of putting the money to pay off the debt. Or offer health insurance to those with none. Or some other wasteful thing. Like new military jet planes. Trump gave many billions of dollars to farmers to buy votes and subsidize them. And growing more corn than we need also introduces more chemicals and fertilizers into the soil which poisons our water. Too much poison in the water is harder to deal with than too little poison.

Have a look at
https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/cor...cal-chart-data
which shows corn prices over the past 60 years and the level seems to
have risen some 560% during that period.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/4/2021 12:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2021 9:30 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 12:54:56 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 11:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:25:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

One acquaintance of mine has an all-electric car and a very large solar
array on his house. His system is set up to first recharge the car. When
the car is topped up, the system sends electricity back to the power
company, reducing his bill. He's very happy with it.

Until the solar cells have to be replaced. Then the hammer falls. When I attended a solar fair the salesmen were busy telling everyone that the cells lasted for 20 years. I went back and talked to the engineer who worked at that company. He said, 5 years until the output drops 50%, another 5 years for another 50% and by 15 years the output was so low that you weren't really getting any power out of them.
Bull****. Your memory (or imagination) is faulty yet again.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf

Typical degradation is less than one percent per year. 25 year
warranties are quite common, and they don't shut off at 25 years, they
just produce less electricity.

See also
https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/ho...gradation-rate

or many other sources.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?
Tom, that was a particularly pitiful attempt at a deflection.

You were flat out wrong in what you posted. You probably looked around
and failed to find data that would defend your nonsense. So you insult
and deflect as usual.

Why can you never bother to look for data before posting your brain's
excrement? And why can you never admit you're wrong?

When you discount the numbers of panels that break from thermal shifts and only count those that remain operational ...

I snipped more made-up Kunich bull****. If that's true, prove it. Show
your sources.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/4/2021 12:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 8:48:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

The meaning of words changes over time. If you want to argue the
meanings of "socialism" vs. "communism" it's much more logical to use
their currently accepted definitions.

What you mean is that you think that people should accept your definitions.

People should accept _real_ definitions, not Kunich fantasy definitions.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/g...-vs-communism/

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...-socialism.asp

We can discuss the features, definitions and varieties of socialism and
communism if you like, and we can discuss the differences between them.
But not if you continue to insist they are identical.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 11:17:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:44:17 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 06:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Frank, when you're making your stupid comments it might be wise to actually know what you're talking about. Tell us what American company is presently making solar panels and what type they are?

U.S. solar panel manufacturers: a list of American-made solar panels
https://news.energysage.com/u-s-solar-panel-manufacturers-list-american-made-solar-panels/

DAM- Jeff!!!!! Why do you keep putting out these simple facts to disprove Tom and make him a Liar?

Sorry. That was an accident. I decided that I was wasting too much
time correcting Tom's mistakes and that I have some better things to
do this summer. Unfortunately, I couldn't resist reading a few R.B.T.
articles and landed on Tom's proclamation declaring the US solar panel
manufacturing business to be dead. Before I could stop myself, I
reflexively searched for applicable information and posted what looked
like accurate information contradicting Tom's unsubstantiated
allegation. I would have included a few choice quotes, but didn't
feel that it was necessary because the entire article contradicts
Tom's allegation. Elapsed time, including reading the article twice,
was about 5 minutes. Since Tom's replies were the usual insults and
topic changes, I suspect that the 5 minutes might have exceeded his
attention span.

Mo

"Outsourcing? Not LG - Our Solar Panels are Made by Us"
https://www.lg.com/us/solar/blog/outsourcing-not-lg-our-solar-panels-are-made-by-us

"Top 5 American solar panel manufacturers in 2020"
https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/best-american-solar-panel-manufacturers

You might find this video interesting:
"Solar Panel Showdown: Sunpower VS Bifacial VS Used VS Renogy VS Rich
Solar"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-auRHKq2-A (13:46)
https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse/videos
Will Prowse runs a few simple tests of various solar panels. Solar
panels don't seem to follow the advertised specs and promises.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558