Arrested on a bike? Let us know!

= Ken [NY)

They were all released by Friday. Of course they are going to
get ACLU lawyers to sue the city. Which is fine, since the RNC
is over now.

=v= Toxic conditions for both peaceful protesters and innocent
bystanders are fine? Indiscriminate attacks on people for
legally and peacefully exercising their civil rights are fine?

=v= Your comments are unAmerican. Perhaps you would be happier
living in a police state.
_Jym_

You make it sound as if they had no control over the number of
arrests, as if they were innocent victims of some preordained
arrest schedule, almost as if they *were ordered* to make each
and every arrest!

=v= "I was only following orders" was soundly judged as no
defense back in 1945. Has this judgement been suspended for
the New World Order? "Ken [NY)" seems to be celebrating that.

=v= Just so we're clear about what the NYPD did:

o Sent unmarked "scooter goons" into peaceful, law-abiding
crowds. The _New_York_Times_ printed the police's claim
that they "nudged" protesters, but they have been videotaped
hitting and kicking people.

o Blocked off areas and indiscriminately arrested everyone
on a block or street. Typical tactic: surrounding them
so that nobody could disperse, then giving an order to
disperse, then arresting them all.

o At bicycle events, arresting everyone in the area, including
food delivery people and those walking on the sidewalk.
Using boltcutters and other tools to steal every bicycle
locked up in the area.

o In addition to the indiscriminate mass arrests, targeted
legal observers and medics for a block around and arresting
them as well.

_Jym_

Jym Dyer wrote:
You make it sound as if they had no control over the number of
arrests, as if they were innocent victims of some preordained
arrest schedule, almost as if they *were ordered* to make each
and every arrest!


=v= "I was only following orders" was soundly judged as no
defense back in 1945. Has this judgement been suspended for
the New World Order? "Ken [NY)" seems to be celebrating that.

Comparing getting arrested for disorderly conduct to mass murder is a
little bit over the top, Jym, and frankly an insult to those of us who
lost much of our families in the Holocaust.
You demonstrated, knew (or should have known) that tensions were at a
high level, invited arrest, then compare the police to the Gestapo.
Get your legal help, and grow up!

Steve Bornfeld (BTW, no supporter of the RNC)

Comparing getting arrested for disorderly conduct to mass
murder is a little bit over the top, Jym, and frankly an
insult to those of us who lost much of our families in the
Holocaust.

=v= I made no such comparison, and frankly your non sequitur
of a reply is needlessly inflammatory.

=v= The Nuremberg Trials set a legal standard that rippled
throughout the civilized world and have been applicable and
applied from the upper levels of the military to the lowest
levels of law enforcement. The standard has quite rightly
been applied to uniformed perpetrators for abuses of human
and civil rights which have (quite obviously) not approached
the realm of those of the Holocaust.

=v= None of this is exactly obscure news. Anyone familiar with
civil rights history or who's even just taken an undergraduate
course in ethics should be familiar with it.

=v= That standard is one of the things we won in WWII. I'm
not willing to give it up.

You demonstrated, knew (or should have known) that tensions
were at a high level, invited arrest, then compare the police
to the Gestapo. Get your legal help, and grow up!

=v= Again, I made no such comparison. But here we see what
you're really up to: just pulling in inflammatory remarks to
spew pejoratives (and heading straight into Godwin territory).
What's more, your "invited arrest" misrepresentation concocts
a scenario that leads one to wonder whether you actually read
read the message that you're putatively responding to.
_Jym_

Jym Dyer wrote:
Comparing getting arrested for disorderly conduct to mass
murder is a little bit over the top, Jym, and frankly an
insult to those of us who lost much of our families in the
Holocaust.


=v= I made no such comparison, and frankly your non sequitur
of a reply is needlessly inflammatory.

Sure. Explain your use of the term "New World Order".

"Ken [NY)" wrote:

The "peaceful law-abiding crowd" was there without a
permit, unlike others that were not bothered.

You think they need your (or anybody else's)
permission to simply be on the public ways?

Nazi is too good a word for you then.

Mitch.

"Ken [NY)" purports:

Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
hoping to be arrested.

=v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
protesting at all.

=v= I know of one fire, conditions confusing, resulting in one
PROVEN FRAUDULENT claim of injury by an NYPD officer. Shameful.

... maybe they shouldn't have been breaking the law. Like
the mayor said, "it isn't Club Med."

=v= Again: read for comprehension. Many arrested WERE NOT
BREAKING THE LAW. Does "breaking" have too many syllables
for you or something? Tell me, do you really think it's
appropriate to do a mass sweep of sidewalks of people who
may not even be protesting, and stuff them into a pen on
oil, diesel soot, asbestos and PCBs? If so, what in God's
name is wrong with you?

=v= Crack dealers and violent offenders (or whom the police
themselves referred to, revealingly, as "real prisoners")
were treated better.

=v= Bloomberg's "Club Med" remark will come back to haunt
him. He's either clueless or lying, and neither is good.
_Jym_

"Ken [NY)" wrote in message
...
On 11 Sep 2004 09:21:37 -0700, Jym Dyer claims:

"Ken [NY)" purports:

Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
hoping to be arrested.

=v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
protesting at all.

No protesting, eh?

Bike protests. Join us in the streets of Manhattan to
celebrate a different vision of our city and public space.

When: Sunday, August 29th, 11:00am
Whe Union Square Park South
(14th St near Broadway)

A bike action in solidarity with UFPJ march:
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/
Meet earlier to discuss plans for our first Bike Bloc.

Sure sounded like a protest to me! Unless you have a
convenient different meaning to "Bike protests".



"Jym" organizes and starts ****, but will NEVER take responcability for any
of it.
The bicycles I saw did block an ambulance for about 15 min, and the police
were completly right in arresting them.
"Jym" will always deny, like he does with the death of that girl in 97 who
was riding with CM.

"Ken [NY)" once again demonstrates his inability
to read for comprehension:

No protesting, eh?

=v= I never said that. What I said, in small words that I
mistakenly thought you were capable of comprehending, is that
many (not all -- repeat -- not all) who were arrested were
protesting, and also that many who were protesting were not
breaking any laws.
_Jym_

"Jym Dyer" wrote in message
...
"Ken [NY)" once again demonstrates his inability
to read for comprehension:

No protesting, eh?

=v= I never said that. What I said, in small words that I
mistakenly thought you were capable of comprehending, is that
many (not all -- repeat -- not all) who were arrested were
protesting, and also that many who were protesting were not
breaking any laws.
_Jym_


Well, which way are you going to have it, Jym-boy?

They WERE, or WERE NOT, breaking LAWS?

Flip' a flopie, "Jym"bie -- urges others to get in trouble, then deny
having anything to do with it.