AAA/CAS tells Crit pro to F.O.

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:

Casey Kerrigan wrote:
In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:

happen.

Also, blame the promoters of Redlands and Superweek who are also
violating USAC rules by not requiring Fuentes to return his money. The
reality is the promoters don't want to be bothered with having to
redistribute all the money to racers who would be moved up a place
because of Neben's annd Fuentes DQ.


In checking out the rule book I find rule 1C3 which says that a rider
DQed for a medical control infraction must return any prizes and primes
won in the event... The rule doesn't say that the rider must return any
prizes won while appealing a medical control violation. Did Fuentes
ride well enough to earn any prizes at Redlands? If yes then under the
rules he would have to return those prizes. Since the rule doesn't
mention having to return prizes earned while appealing ( although it
would make sense logically) I don't see where he is required to return
any other prizes.


Fuentes was DQ'ed from Redlands and EVERY race after that by the CAS
ruling. So he WOULD have to return that prize money during his appeal
process.

But that isn't how the rule reads. The rule says the event ( ie a
single event). The rule doesn't say that prizes have to be returned for
events ridden during appeal. Also it would be a huge pain trying to
redistribute all the prizes over all the different races he placed in
since Redlands.

I thought you would be more upset over the fact that Fuents is really
only getting a 1 year suspension since he got to race all of this year
and will only be suspended from now until March 25th 2006.

Casey Kerrigan wrote:

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:


Casey Kerrigan wrote:

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:

happen.


Also, blame the promoters of Redlands and Superweek who are also
violating USAC rules by not requiring Fuentes to return his money. The
reality is the promoters don't want to be bothered with having to
redistribute all the money to racers who would be moved up a place
because of Neben's annd Fuentes DQ.


In checking out the rule book I find rule 1C3 which says that a rider
DQed for a medical control infraction must return any prizes and primes
won in the event... The rule doesn't say that the rider must return any
prizes won while appealing a medical control violation. Did Fuentes
ride well enough to earn any prizes at Redlands? If yes then under the
rules he would have to return those prizes. Since the rule doesn't
mention having to return prizes earned while appealing ( although it
would make sense logically) I don't see where he is required to return
any other prizes.


Fuentes was DQ'ed from Redlands and EVERY race after that by the CAS
ruling. So he WOULD have to return that prize money during his appeal
process.


But that isn't how the rule reads. The rule says the event ( ie a
single event). The rule doesn't say that prizes have to be returned for
events ridden during appeal. Also it would be a huge pain trying to
redistribute all the prizes over all the different races he placed in
since Redlands.

I thought you would be more upset over the fact that Fuents is really
only getting a 1 year suspension since he got to race all of this year
and will only be suspended from now until March 25th 2006.


Hey Casey,

You don't appear to have very goood reading comprehension. Pay attention:

1. Fuentes and Neben were DQ'ed by the CAS from ALL of their races after
their positive test.

2. The rules state that prize money must be refunded from races in which
a rider was DQ'ed from as a result of a drug sanction, which includes
ANY RACE the CAS states the rider was DQ'ed from in their ruling.

3. It doesn't matter if it would be a "huge pain in the ass" to
redistribute the prize money. The rules are the rules.

Magilla

Casey Kerrigan wrote:

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:


Casey Kerrigan wrote:

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:

happen.


Also, blame the promoters of Redlands and Superweek who are also
violating USAC rules by not requiring Fuentes to return his money. The
reality is the promoters don't want to be bothered with having to
redistribute all the money to racers who would be moved up a place
because of Neben's annd Fuentes DQ.


In checking out the rule book I find rule 1C3 which says that a rider
DQed for a medical control infraction must return any prizes and primes
won in the event... The rule doesn't say that the rider must return any
prizes won while appealing a medical control violation. Did Fuentes
ride well enough to earn any prizes at Redlands? If yes then under the
rules he would have to return those prizes. Since the rule doesn't
mention having to return prizes earned while appealing ( although it
would make sense logically) I don't see where he is required to return
any other prizes.


Fuentes was DQ'ed from Redlands and EVERY race after that by the CAS
ruling. So he WOULD have to return that prize money during his appeal
process.


But that isn't how the rule reads. The rule says the event ( ie a
single event). The rule doesn't say that prizes have to be returned for
events ridden during appeal. Also it would be a huge pain trying to
redistribute all the prizes over all the different races he placed in
since Redlands.

I thought you would be more upset over the fact that Fuents is really
only getting a 1 year suspension since he got to race all of this year
and will only be suspended from now until March 25th 2006.


Hey Casey,

You don't appear to have very goood reading comprehension. Pay attention:

1. Fuentes and Neben were DQ'ed by the CAS from ALL of their races after
their positive test.

2. The rules state that prize money must be refunded from races in which
a rider was DQ'ed from as a result of a drug sanction, which includes
ANY RACE the CAS states the rider was DQ'ed from in their ruling.

3. It doesn't matter if it would be a "huge pain in the ass" to
redistribute the prize money. The rules are the rules.

Magilla

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:



Hey Casey,

You don't appear to have very goood reading comprehension. Pay attention:

1. Fuentes and Neben were DQ'ed by the CAS from ALL of their races after
their positive test.

2. The rules state that prize money must be refunded from races in which
a rider was DQ'ed from as a result of a drug sanction, which includes
ANY RACE the CAS states the rider was DQ'ed from in their ruling.

Ok please provide the word for word rule ( and note where others can
look it up) in question. I stated the only rule I could find in the
rule book dealilng with this issue 1C3 in the USCF rule book


3. It doesn't matter if it would be a "huge pain in the ass" to
redistribute the prize money. The rules are the rules.


Yup the rules are the rules and in this case as I read it rule 1C3 only
applies to the initial race that the rider is foud guilty of doping at.

Magilla

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:



Hey Casey,

You don't appear to have very goood reading comprehension. Pay attention:

1. Fuentes and Neben were DQ'ed by the CAS from ALL of their races after
their positive test.

2. The rules state that prize money must be refunded from races in which
a rider was DQ'ed from as a result of a drug sanction, which includes
ANY RACE the CAS states the rider was DQ'ed from in their ruling.

Ok please provide the word for word rule ( and note where others can
look it up) in question. I stated the only rule I could find in the
rule book dealilng with this issue 1C3 in the USCF rule book


3. It doesn't matter if it would be a "huge pain in the ass" to
redistribute the prize money. The rules are the rules.


Yup the rules are the rules and in this case as I read it rule 1C3 only
applies to the initial race that the rider is foud guilty of doping at.

Magilla

Casey Kerrigan wrote:

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:



Hey Casey,

You don't appear to have very goood reading comprehension. Pay attention:

1. Fuentes and Neben were DQ'ed by the CAS from ALL of their races after
their positive test.

2. The rules state that prize money must be refunded from races in which
a rider was DQ'ed from as a result of a drug sanction, which includes
ANY RACE the CAS states the rider was DQ'ed from in their ruling.


Ok please provide the word for word rule ( and note where others can
look it up) in question. I stated the only rule I could find in the
rule book dealilng with this issue 1C3 in the USCF rule book


3. It doesn't matter if it would be a "huge pain in the ass" to
redistribute the prize money. The rules are the rules.



Yup the rules are the rules and in this case as I read it rule 1C3 only
applies to the initial race that the rider is foud guilty of doping at.

Magilla


Casey,

If the Court of Arbitration for Sport DQ's you from 5 races, you have to
return all your prize money from those 5 races because the rules state
that prize money must be returned from a race in which you were DQ'ed.

------

1A20. Disqualification is a penalty that causes a rider or
team to lose placing in a race and to be ineligible for any
subsequent heats in the race.

1N7. Disqualification. In races consisting ordinarily of
qualification, semifinal, and final rounds, the disqualification
of a rider or team after the finals shall not change the
placings of other riders. In other races, when a rider or team
is removed from the placings by disqualification, any lower
placed riders will be advanced to their next higher finishing
place.

1C3.. A rider who is disqualified for a medical control
infraction must promptly return any prizes and primes won in
the event, though this obligation shall be stayed while a
hearing is pending.

--------------------------------------

Now pay attention, Casey:


IC3 has to apply to all the races, and NOT just the event for which the
rider tested positive because:

1. You cannot be disqualified from a race by the CAS (regardless of the
reason) and still take the prize money for placing say, second. Why,
you ask? BECAUSE YOU WERE ****ING DISQUALIFIED FROM SECOND PLACE BY THE
CAS AND THEREFORE YOU NEVER GOT SECOND PLACE IN THAT RACE. SO ON WHAT
BASIS ARE YOU KEEPING THE SECOOND PLACE PRIZE MONEY? DQ MEANS DQ. IT
MEANS YOU NEVER GOT SECOND PLACE.

2. RULE 1C3 is superseded by CAS rulings (see #4 below)

3. IC3 does not state a rider CAN keep prize money from a race in which
he or she was disqualified by the CAS. IC3 only says that you must
return prize money from the event in which you failed the medical
control. So IC3 is not relevant. However the CAS ruling is.

4. [page 149] II. Medical Control
Section 1. USA Cycling has adopted and participates in the
United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) protocol for
Olympic Movement testing (USADA protocol). The USADA
protocol is incorporated herein by reference and shall prevail
over any USA Cycling Regulation to the contrary. Their
medical control regulations shall apply to USA Cycling, its
Associations, and all members, licensees, participants in races
granted permits by USA Cycling or Associations, and
organizations affiliated with USA Cycling or Associations.

The CAS process is part of the USADA Protocol, so therefore it's
included in II. Medical Control.



Take care,


Magilla

Casey Kerrigan wrote:

In article , MagillaGorilla
wrote:



Hey Casey,

You don't appear to have very goood reading comprehension. Pay attention:

1. Fuentes and Neben were DQ'ed by the CAS from ALL of their races after
their positive test.

2. The rules state that prize money must be refunded from races in which
a rider was DQ'ed from as a result of a drug sanction, which includes
ANY RACE the CAS states the rider was DQ'ed from in their ruling.


Ok please provide the word for word rule ( and note where others can
look it up) in question. I stated the only rule I could find in the
rule book dealilng with this issue 1C3 in the USCF rule book


3. It doesn't matter if it would be a "huge pain in the ass" to
redistribute the prize money. The rules are the rules.



Yup the rules are the rules and in this case as I read it rule 1C3 only
applies to the initial race that the rider is foud guilty of doping at.

Magilla


Casey,

If the Court of Arbitration for Sport DQ's you from 5 races, you have to
return all your prize money from those 5 races because the rules state
that prize money must be returned from a race in which you were DQ'ed.

------

1A20. Disqualification is a penalty that causes a rider or
team to lose placing in a race and to be ineligible for any
subsequent heats in the race.

1N7. Disqualification. In races consisting ordinarily of
qualification, semifinal, and final rounds, the disqualification
of a rider or team after the finals shall not change the
placings of other riders. In other races, when a rider or team
is removed from the placings by disqualification, any lower
placed riders will be advanced to their next higher finishing
place.

1C3.. A rider who is disqualified for a medical control
infraction must promptly return any prizes and primes won in
the event, though this obligation shall be stayed while a
hearing is pending.

--------------------------------------

Now pay attention, Casey:


IC3 has to apply to all the races, and NOT just the event for which the
rider tested positive because:

1. You cannot be disqualified from a race by the CAS (regardless of the
reason) and still take the prize money for placing say, second. Why,
you ask? BECAUSE YOU WERE ****ING DISQUALIFIED FROM SECOND PLACE BY THE
CAS AND THEREFORE YOU NEVER GOT SECOND PLACE IN THAT RACE. SO ON WHAT
BASIS ARE YOU KEEPING THE SECOOND PLACE PRIZE MONEY? DQ MEANS DQ. IT
MEANS YOU NEVER GOT SECOND PLACE.

2. RULE 1C3 is superseded by CAS rulings (see #4 below)

3. IC3 does not state a rider CAN keep prize money from a race in which
he or she was disqualified by the CAS. IC3 only says that you must
return prize money from the event in which you failed the medical
control. So IC3 is not relevant. However the CAS ruling is.

4. [page 149] II. Medical Control
Section 1. USA Cycling has adopted and participates in the
United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) protocol for
Olympic Movement testing (USADA protocol). The USADA
protocol is incorporated herein by reference and shall prevail
over any USA Cycling Regulation to the contrary. Their
medical control regulations shall apply to USA Cycling, its
Associations, and all members, licensees, participants in races
granted permits by USA Cycling or Associations, and
organizations affiliated with USA Cycling or Associations.

The CAS process is part of the USADA Protocol, so therefore it's
included in II. Medical Control.



Take care,


Magilla