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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote:
If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other conclusion can be drawn? Brendo |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
Bleve Wrote: If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html Mr Johnstone Wrote: "Those who run the pack don't give evidence. They're not game enough," he said. Does anyone actually run the Hell Ride? I thought it was more of a CM thing, an unorganised coincidence? -- EuanB |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 16:07:30 -0700
Brendo wrote: On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote: If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other conclusion can be drawn? He didn't say conclusion, he said reporting. If those are indeed the facts, then someone was culpable. If they aren't... Zebee - who isn't sure "the hellride" can be culpable unless it has incorporation papers. As there are a rather large number of people in that pack who didn't hit the guy. There is definitely a man who is culpable, and possible some (the ones who were calling roll) who contributed. |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
On Mar 29, 10:39 am, EuanB EuanB.2o6...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote: Bleve Wrote: If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html Mr Johnstone Wrote: "Those who run the pack don't give evidence. They're not game enough," he said. Does anyone actually run the Hell Ride? Not as such, no. I thought it was more of a CM thing, an unorganised coincidence? Pretty-much, yes But ... the strong riders are the ones at the front driving it, and there aren't very many of them compared to the size of the bunch, so there's a leadership of sorts. This is unlike a lot of other big bunch rides which aren't so fast and so more people are capable of driving it. |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
On Mar 29, 10:56 am, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 16:07:30 -0700 Brendo wrote: On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote: If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other conclusion can be drawn? He didn't say conclusion, he said reporting. If those are indeed the facts, then someone was culpable. If they aren't... Zebee - who isn't sure "the hellride" can be culpable unless it has incorporation papers. As there are a rather large number of people in that pack who didn't hit the guy. There is definitely a man who is culpable, and possible some (the ones who were calling roll) who contributed. Pedant. The hellride is a cultural phenomenon. The culture of it caused James Gould's death. The bloke who actually ran into him was only one, of dozens, that go through red lights on that ride. Sure, he's directly responsible for it (and IMO should be done for manslaugher) but the culture of that particular ride is the core of the problem. Next time you're in Melbourne, make the time to get up on a Saturday morning and follow it on a motorbike and see what that ride does. Then you'll understand. |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
On Mar 29, 8:56 am, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 16:07:30 -0700 Brendo wrote: On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote: If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other conclusion can be drawn? He didn't say conclusion, he said reporting. If those are indeed the facts, then someone was culpable. If they aren't... Zebee - who isn't sure "the hellride" can be culpable unless it has incorporation papers. As there are a rather large number of people in that pack who didn't hit the guy. There is definitely a man who is culpable, and possible some (the ones who were calling roll) who contributed. I was referring to the Age report, where a gentleman was charged with failing to stop at pedestrian lights on the day of the incident. Do I mean the Hell Ride is culpable. Legally, no. Morally, yes. Everybody who crossed the red light, or encouraged someone to cross when the light was red is MORALLY responsible for that death. If you encourage a young guy to race a car, and he crashes into a group and kills someone, you are not legally resposible, but you are morally responsible. Cyclists whine like hell when someone drives a car in their bike lane, or overtakes too close, or backs out of a driveway without looking, or walks with friends on a cycleway. When other people actions infringe on their 'rights' and safety, they get their back up. In this case, the actions of the cyclist infringed upon the rights and safety of a pedestrian. I dont see how you can defend this action with all this 'hell ride isn't incorporated' or 'was the speed excessive' crap. Someones father, brother, uncle is dead because of the actions of members of this ride, actions which deliberately breached the laws of the road, and which were encouraged by many members of the group. Only one cyclist struck Mr Gould. Legally, the problem is his, and "Failing to stop at pedestrain lights" is a pathetically small charge IMO. But every member of this ride who either participated or encouraged the blatant breaking of the rules of the road (designed for the safety of ALL road users) should have this mans death sitting heavy on their heart. Brendo |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 17:57:45 -0700
Bleve wrote: But ... the strong riders are the ones at the front driving it, and there aren't very many of them compared to the size of the bunch, so there's a leadership of sorts. This is unlike a lot of other big bunch rides which aren't so fast and so more people are capable of driving it. They aren't so much driving it as collecting followers though? Seems like it's the ones in the middle and possibly towards the back who are the ones "driving" it, as they are the ones trying to keep up. Zebee |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 18:08:11 -0700
Bleve wrote: Pedant. The hellride is a cultural phenomenon. The culture of it caused James Gould's death. The bloke who actually ran into him was only one, of dozens, that go through red lights on that ride. Sure, he's directly responsible for it (and IMO should be done for manslaugher) but the culture of that particular ride is the core of the problem. Next time you're in Melbourne, make the time to get up on a Saturday morning and follow it on a motorbike and see what that ride does. Then you'll understand. I can see it is a cultural thing, but then I also believe that each person makes his own decisions. Crowds do develop madness, but you also can't speak to them or deal with them. People have to see it is their own actions, their own choices. Were the people at the front responsible for the actions of those at the back? I really can't see it. Zebee |
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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today
EuanB Wrote: Does anyone actually run the Hell Ride? I thought it was more of a CM thing, an unorganised coincidence? PBR's ride it -- byron27 |
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