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James Gould coronors hearing in the age today



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 28th 07, 11:57 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Bleve
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Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today


If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html

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  #2  
Old March 29th 07, 12:07 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Brendo
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Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today

On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote:
If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html


IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated
he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other
conclusion can be drawn?

Brendo

  #3  
Old March 29th 07, 01:39 AM posted to aus.bicycle
EuanB[_20_]
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Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today


Bleve Wrote:
If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html



Mr Johnstone Wrote:
"Those who run the pack don't give evidence. They're not game enough,"
he said.


Does anyone actually run the Hell Ride? I thought it was more of a CM
thing, an unorganised coincidence?


--
EuanB

  #4  
Old March 29th 07, 01:56 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Zebee Johnstone
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Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today

In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 16:07:30 -0700
Brendo wrote:
On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote:
If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html


IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated
he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other
conclusion can be drawn?


He didn't say conclusion, he said reporting. If those are indeed the
facts, then someone was culpable. If they aren't...

Zebee
- who isn't sure "the hellride" can be culpable unless it has
incorporation papers. As there are a rather large number of people
in that pack who didn't hit the guy. There is definitely a man who is
culpable, and possible some (the ones who were calling roll) who
contributed.
  #5  
Old March 29th 07, 01:57 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Bleve
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Posts: 1,258
Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today

On Mar 29, 10:39 am, EuanB EuanB.2o6...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote:
Bleve Wrote:

If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable.


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html


Mr Johnstone Wrote:

"Those who run the pack don't give evidence. They're not game enough,"
he said.


Does anyone actually run the Hell Ride?



Not as such, no.

I thought it was more of a CM
thing, an unorganised coincidence?


Pretty-much, yes

But ... the strong riders are the ones at the front driving it, and
there aren't very many of them compared to the size of the bunch, so
there's a leadership of sorts. This is unlike a lot of other big
bunch rides which aren't so fast and so more people are capable of
driving it.




  #6  
Old March 29th 07, 02:08 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Bleve
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Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today

On Mar 29, 10:56 am, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 16:07:30 -0700

Brendo wrote:
On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote:
If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable.


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html


IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated
he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other
conclusion can be drawn?


He didn't say conclusion, he said reporting. If those are indeed the
facts, then someone was culpable. If they aren't...

Zebee
- who isn't sure "the hellride" can be culpable unless it has
incorporation papers. As there are a rather large number of people
in that pack who didn't hit the guy. There is definitely a man who is
culpable, and possible some (the ones who were calling roll) who
contributed.


Pedant. The hellride is a cultural phenomenon. The culture of it
caused James Gould's death. The bloke who actually ran into him was
only one, of dozens, that go through red lights on that ride. Sure,
he's directly responsible for it (and IMO should be done for
manslaugher) but the culture of that particular ride is the core of
the problem. Next time you're in Melbourne, make the time to get up
on a Saturday morning and follow it on a motorbike and see what that
ride does. Then you'll understand.









  #7  
Old March 29th 07, 02:32 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Brendo
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Posts: 130
Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today

On Mar 29, 8:56 am, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 16:07:30 -0700

Brendo wrote:
On Mar 29, 6:57 am, "Bleve" wrote:
If the reporting is accurate, it seems the hellride is culpable.


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...761567956.html


IF... Man crossed when lights indicated he could, and where indicated
he could, and cyclists rode through lights when red, then what other
conclusion can be drawn?


He didn't say conclusion, he said reporting. If those are indeed the
facts, then someone was culpable. If they aren't...

Zebee
- who isn't sure "the hellride" can be culpable unless it has
incorporation papers. As there are a rather large number of people
in that pack who didn't hit the guy. There is definitely a man who is
culpable, and possible some (the ones who were calling roll) who
contributed.


I was referring to the Age report, where a gentleman was charged with
failing to stop at pedestrian lights on the day of the incident. Do I
mean the Hell Ride is culpable. Legally, no. Morally, yes. Everybody
who crossed the red light, or encouraged someone to cross when the
light was red is MORALLY responsible for that death. If you encourage
a young guy to race a car, and he crashes into a group and kills
someone, you are not legally resposible, but you are morally
responsible. Cyclists whine like hell when someone drives a car in
their bike lane, or overtakes too close, or backs out of a driveway
without looking, or walks with friends on a cycleway. When other
people actions infringe on their 'rights' and safety, they get their
back up. In this case, the actions of the cyclist infringed upon the
rights and safety of a pedestrian. I dont see how you can defend this
action with all this 'hell ride isn't incorporated' or 'was the speed
excessive' crap. Someones father, brother, uncle is dead because of
the actions of members of this ride, actions which deliberately
breached the laws of the road, and which were encouraged by many
members of the group. Only one cyclist struck Mr Gould. Legally, the
problem is his, and "Failing to stop at pedestrain lights" is a
pathetically small charge IMO. But every member of this ride who
either participated or encouraged the blatant breaking of the rules of
the road (designed for the safety of ALL road users) should have this
mans death sitting heavy on their heart.

Brendo

  #8  
Old March 29th 07, 02:36 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Zebee Johnstone
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Posts: 1,960
Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today

In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 17:57:45 -0700
Bleve wrote:
But ... the strong riders are the ones at the front driving it, and
there aren't very many of them compared to the size of the bunch, so
there's a leadership of sorts. This is unlike a lot of other big
bunch rides which aren't so fast and so more people are capable of
driving it.


They aren't so much driving it as collecting followers though?

Seems like it's the ones in the middle and possibly towards the back
who are the ones "driving" it, as they are the ones trying to keep up.

Zebee
  #9  
Old March 29th 07, 02:38 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Zebee Johnstone
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Posts: 1,960
Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today

In aus.bicycle on 28 Mar 2007 18:08:11 -0700
Bleve wrote:
Pedant. The hellride is a cultural phenomenon. The culture of it
caused James Gould's death. The bloke who actually ran into him was
only one, of dozens, that go through red lights on that ride. Sure,
he's directly responsible for it (and IMO should be done for
manslaugher) but the culture of that particular ride is the core of
the problem. Next time you're in Melbourne, make the time to get up
on a Saturday morning and follow it on a motorbike and see what that
ride does. Then you'll understand.



I can see it is a cultural thing, but then I also believe that each
person makes his own decisions. Crowds do develop madness, but you
also can't speak to them or deal with them.

People have to see it is their own actions, their own choices. Were
the people at the front responsible for the actions of those at the
back? I really can't see it.

Zebee
  #10  
Old March 29th 07, 02:52 AM posted to aus.bicycle
byron27[_34_]
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Posts: 1
Default James Gould coronors hearing in the age today


EuanB Wrote:
Does anyone actually run the Hell Ride? I thought it was more of a CM
thing, an unorganised coincidence?

PBR's ride it


--
byron27



 




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