#11
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Braking Technique
In article , asqui
wrote: Andrew Lee wrote: "asqui" wrote warren wrote: I think you should worry less about invalid "arguments" and spend the time practicing with both brakes and keeping your weight farther back under heavy braking. Don't you think that having two tires making contact/friction with the ground would work better? -WG So yeah... now that I found out where I read this invalid argument perhaps you would like to consult the rec.bicycles.* faq around he http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.17.html Eating one's hat is optional. Try reading this: http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.15.html This has more information about braking in the context of corners... Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post. I was referring to emergency braking on a good surface in a straight line. Armstrong was braking in a straight line as he came past the outside of Beloki. This section of the faq states once more that front brake only is the quickest way to decelerate as long as you're not banked in the middle of a turn. Then it's wrong. Think about my question again... "Don't you think that having two tires making contact/friction with the ground (with the brakes applied) would work better than one?" Why don't you go out and test your theory and that FAQ statement and get back to us? Make sure to bring your hat. -WG |
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#12
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Braking Technique
"asqui" wrote in message ... Andrew Lee wrote: "asqui" wrote warren wrote: I think you should worry less about invalid "arguments" and spend the time practicing with both brakes and keeping your weight farther back under heavy braking. Don't you think that having two tires making contact/friction with the ground would work better? -WG So yeah... now that I found out where I read this invalid argument perhaps you would like to consult the rec.bicycles.* faq around he http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.17.html Eating one's hat is optional. Try reading this: http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.15.html This has more information about braking in the context of corners... Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post. I was referring to emergency braking on a good surface in a straight line. Armstrong was braking in a straight line as he came past the outside of Beloki. This section of the faq states once more that front brake only is the quickest way to decelerate as long as you're not banked in the middle of a turn. And using the front brake only is also the easiest way to end up over the bars and on the ground! If you aren't careful, the front brake has more than enough power to dump you on your arse. Mike |
#13
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Steering (was Braking Technique)
"Zelda" wrote in message om... Since you compare bicycles to motorcycles, I have a different question: I used to ride motorcycles, and tried amateur roadracing for a couple of years. Last year, when I bought my first-ever good quality road bicycle, I asked the staff at the bike shop if you use countersteering to go around fast corners on a bicycle, as you do on a motorcycle (pushing the handlebar away from you). They didn't know what I was talking about. So, do you use countersteering on a road bicycle? Thanks, Zelda I do. I don't know if it is who I'm racing/riding with, or my technique, but I can get around corners faster than 90% of the guys I'm with. Just as a note: the velodrome at Encino has turns that make you countersteer to keep on the black line. If you don't, you end up slingshotting up to the top of the track. It'll catch you out if you're not paying attention. Mike |
#14
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Steering (was Braking Technique)
Zelda wrote:
Since you compare bicycles to motorcycles, I have a different question: I used to ride motorcycles, and tried amateur roadracing for a couple of years. Last year, when I bought my first-ever good quality road bicycle, I asked the staff at the bike shop if you use countersteering to go around fast corners on a bicycle, as you do on a motorcycle (pushing the handlebar away from you). They didn't know what I was talking about. So, do you use countersteering on a road bicycle? Thanks, Zelda Apparently yes. I say "apparently" because it is in the FAQ, but I've never conciously done it. It's said to be a subconcious technique, and I believe I've detected it in my own riding. I get around the corners okay in competition. Boy, that sounded like the statement of an expert. Hope it helps. -- -- Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine. |
#16
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Steering (was Braking Technique)
"Zelda" wrote:
Since you compare bicycles to motorcycles, I have a different question: I used to ride motorcycles, and tried amateur roadracing for a couple of years. Last year, when I bought my first-ever good quality road bicycle, I asked the staff at the bike shop if you use countersteering to go around fast corners on a bicycle, as you do on a motorcycle (pushing the handlebar away from you). They didn't know what I was talking about. So, do you use countersteering on a road bicycle? Yeah, but not consciously. I found myself doing it when caught on the inside of a sharp 90 degree turn (crit). In fact it must be intuitive because I was watching my 7 year old daughter countersteer as she was riding up and down the driveway the other day. -- Dominic Richens | "If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!" |
#17
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Steering (was Braking Technique)
"Zelda" wrote in message
om... Since you compare bicycles to motorcycles, I have a different question: I used to ride motorcycles, and tried amateur roadracing for a couple of years. Last year, when I bought my first-ever good quality road bicycle, I asked the staff at the bike shop if you use countersteering to go around fast corners on a bicycle, as you do on a motorcycle (pushing the handlebar away from you). They didn't know what I was talking about. So, do you use countersteering on a road bicycle? Thanks, Zelda I think the whole countsteer thing is a little over-done. EVERYONE countersteers when riding a bicycle or motorcycle, whether they know what it's called or what it's supposed to be. I don't think you can initiate a turn on a bike at any kind of speed without countersteering. Riding schools emphasize and encapsulate the idea for students so they know the mechanism for initiating and maintaining a turn, but everyone who rides does it whether they know it or not. It's a lot easier to tip a bicycle in than a motorcycle at each machine's normal operating speeds (say, 100kmh for a motorcycle and 20kmh for a bicycle) so the countersteer is more obvious on a motorcycle. You really have to push those clip-ons around to get the thing to turn in. Much less force is required on a bike, so it's probably harder for a bicyclist to recognize what's going on, but the mechanism is the same. That's my take on it anyways. Cheers, Scott.. |
#18
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Steering (was Braking Technique)
Race Fan wrote:
Countersteering works great for roadbikes, you will just want to practice a bit. A dirty road surface is not a good spot to practice since the countersteering puts a hefty lean onto the frame and a dirty road would result in your wheels sliding out from under you. On rough roads or gritty roads it is best to put your body heavy into the corner and keep the bike up-right as possible, this makes the pressure on the tires more directly down, versus a sharp angle between the tire and the road. Good luck! Sheldon Brown would disagree: http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#leaning |
#19
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Steering (was Braking Technique)
S. Anderson wrote:
"Zelda" wrote in message om... Since you compare bicycles to motorcycles, I have a different question: I used to ride motorcycles, and tried amateur roadracing for a couple of years. Last year, when I bought my first-ever good quality road bicycle, I asked the staff at the bike shop if you use countersteering to go around fast corners on a bicycle, as you do on a motorcycle (pushing the handlebar away from you). They didn't know what I was talking about. So, do you use countersteering on a road bicycle? Thanks, Zelda I think the whole countsteer thing is a little over-done. EVERYONE countersteers when riding a bicycle or motorcycle, whether they know what it's called or what it's supposed to be. I don't think you can initiate a turn on a bike at any kind of speed without countersteering. Riding schools emphasize and encapsulate the idea for students so they know the mechanism for initiating and maintaining a turn, but everyone who rides does it whether they know it or not. It's a lot easier to tip a bicycle in than a motorcycle at each machine's normal operating speeds (say, 100kmh for a motorcycle and 20kmh for a bicycle) so the countersteer is more obvious on a motorcycle. You really have to push those clip-ons around to get the thing to turn in. Much less force is required on a bike, so it's probably harder for a bicyclist to recognize what's going on, but the mechanism is the same. That's my take on it anyways. Cheers, Scott.. What about leaning your weight? I have seen that other people can rather competently steer a bike with their hands off the bars. Not through any hairpins mind you. |
#20
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Steering (was Braking Technique)
asqui wrote:
What about leaning your weight? I have seen that other people can rather competently steer a bike with their hands off the bars. Not through any hairpins mind you. Vary the pressure (weight) slightly between the pedals on the downstroke or stop pedalling with the lower foot in the direction you want to turn and put a little weight on it. (Either way, you tilt your hips a bit in that direction.) |
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