Touring - Early 1990s Shimano group

Hello

Questions on Shimano road Touring groups from the early 1990s

I have been reading Shimano history on the web for the last coupl
of days. Here is a questions. Shimano had what looks like road
based touring groups in the 1980s mainly the Deore. In 1989 ther
was Deore-II

In 1990 it looks like Shimano made the shift to MTB groups an
Road groups

What Shimano **road** touring groups were made in the early 1990s (1991
1992, 1993)

Was there a break during these years? From what I have read it look
like the first road touring group of the 1990's was the 1992 RX100? I
this the case? What other road groups might there have been during thes
early post "Deore II" days

--Chri


-

What Shimano **road** touring groups were made in the early 1990s
(1991,
1992, 1993).

This site lists Shimano groups: http://datenbanken.freepage.de/traut/


"ccollins" wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

Questions on Shimano road Touring groups from the early 1990s.

I have been reading Shimano history on the web for the last couple
of days. Here is a questions. Shimano had what looks like road-
based touring groups in the 1980s mainly the Deore. In 1989 there
was Deore-II.

In 1990 it looks like Shimano made the shift to MTB groups and
Road groups.

What Shimano **road** touring groups were made in the early 1990s
(1991,
1992, 1993).

Was there a break during these years? From what I have read it looks
like the first road touring group of the 1990's was the 1992 RX100?
Is
this the case? What other road groups might there have been during
these
early post "Deore II" days?

--Chris



--

I have Deore DX on my 1991 Trek 520 touring bike. Its worked just
fine for many thousands of miles. Except I always hated trying to
adjust the low profile cantilever brakes and replaced them with some
Dia Compe normal cantilever brakes a few years ago. About the only
touring specific thing about it is the half step front derailleur. I
recall Sheldon Brown writing about Shimano having a specific half step
front derailleur long ago. It was dropped a few years later. The
bike also came with RX100 brake levers and bar end shifters. Not sure
on the official name for the bar ends. They may have been 600 or
RX100 or just plain old Shimano.


ccollins wrote in message ...
Hello,

Questions on Shimano road Touring groups from the early 1990s.

I have been reading Shimano history on the web for the last couple
of days. Here is a questions. Shimano had what looks like road-
based touring groups in the 1980s mainly the Deore. In 1989 there
was Deore-II.

In 1990 it looks like Shimano made the shift to MTB groups and
Road groups.

What Shimano **road** touring groups were made in the early 1990s (1991,
1992, 1993).

Was there a break during these years? From what I have read it looks
like the first road touring group of the 1990's was the 1992 RX100? Is
this the case? What other road groups might there have been during these
early post "Deore II" days?

--Chris



--

What Shimano **road** touring groups were made in the early 1990
(1991, 1992, 1993)

This site lists Shimano groups: http://datenbanken.freepage.de/traut/
http://datenbanken.freepage.de/traut

Thanks, I know this site. This is the one I used to 'guess' that th
RX100 from 1993 was a 'road' touring group. On that chart it shows th
RX100 in the road group and it shows that these came with a long cag
rear derailleur

Anyone else know of these groups? Long cage RD, 6/7/8 speed inde
downtube shifters? Anyone have an opinion on if there was a *touring
road group from the early 1990s

Thanks

--Chri


-

Originally posted by Russell... I have Deore DX on my 1991 Trek 52
touring bike

The 1991 Deore DX is listed under the MTB group. I know I am quibblin
but I am looking for a Shimano *road* group if it existed

About the only touring specific thing about it is the half step fron
derailleur

Tell me more? I have two old touring bikes with Shimano front derailuer
and they are listed as "Alpine" and the other is listed as "Half step
What's supposed to be the difference? What does Half-step mean? Alpine

--Chri


-

ccollins wrote in message ...
Hello,

Questions on Shimano road Touring groups from the early 1990s.

I have been reading Shimano history on the web for the last couple
of days. Here is a questions. Shimano had what looks like road-
based touring groups in the 1980s mainly the Deore. In 1989 there
was Deore-II.

In 1990 it looks like Shimano made the shift to MTB groups and
Road groups.

What Shimano **road** touring groups were made in the early 1990s (1991,
1992, 1993).

Was there a break during these years? From what I have read it looks
like the first road touring group of the 1990's was the 1992 RX100? Is
this the case? What other road groups might there have been during these
early post "Deore II" days?

--Chris

Hmmm... I was stocking parts at Euro-Asia Imports in those years
(1987-1989). Before that I was a shop rat (1979-1984) and after I was
working the phones at Bike'alog (1989-1993). I *guess* I'm qualified
to answer.

"Deore-xx" parts after 1986-ish were exclusively "mountain bike". That
includes Deore, Deore II, Deore XT, and Deore XT II. As far as I can
recall, Deore II and Deore XT II superceded Deore and Deore XT in
1987. There were only minor changes from one to the next- all were
7-speed SIS with thumbshifters and cantilever brakes. In 1989, Shimano
introduced the first version of Rapidfire (both upshift and downshift
activated by thumb presses) and went back to Deore and Deore XT.

Back to your question- "road" groups of that time were Dura-Ace, 600,
and 105. There were long-cage derailleurs and triple cranks in the 600
line and *perhaps* the 105 (memory's pretty fuzzy) in the late '80's.
I think that Shimano *did not* make a dedicated "road touring" group
in the early '90's: the few dedicated touring bikes that I saw
(Cannondales and Treks, mostly) used mongrel mountain bike groups.

So, the short answer to your question is: no. There was no "road
touring" group before RX100.

Jeff

(Russell Seaton) wrote in message . com...
I have Deore DX on my 1991 Trek 520 touring bike. Its worked just
fine for many thousands of miles. Except I always hated trying to
adjust the low profile cantilever brakes and replaced them with some
Dia Compe normal cantilever brakes a few years ago. About the only
touring specific thing about it is the half step front derailleur. I
recall Sheldon Brown writing about Shimano having a specific half step
front derailleur long ago. It was dropped a few years later. The
bike also came with RX100 brake levers and bar end shifters. Not sure
on the official name for the bar ends. They may have been 600 or
RX100 or just plain old Shimano.


There were "half-step" and "alpine" versions of the Deore II and Deore
XT II front derailleurs available at that time- and trying to keep
them all straight on the warehouse shelf was a b***h.

The bar-end shifters were never really associated with a particular
group. They were SL-BS50 (6 & 7-speed and later 8-speed), SL-BS50-8
(works with 8-speed Dura-Ace). Nowadays SL-BS77 is 9-speed and SL-BS78
is 10-speed.

Jeff

ccollins wrote in message ...
Originally posted by Russell... I have Deore DX on my 1991 Trek 520
touring bike.

The 1991 Deore DX is listed under the MTB group. I know I am quibbling
but I am looking for a Shimano *road* group if it existed.

About the only touring specific thing about it is the half step front
derailleur.

Tell me more? I have two old touring bikes with Shimano front derailuers
and they are listed as "Alpine" and the other is listed as "Half step"
What's supposed to be the difference? What does Half-step mean? Alpine?

--Chris

Physically the back cage is different between the two front
derailleurs. I don't recall which is deeper. I would guess the
alpine one is deeper. With half step gearing the front chainrings are
close in size. 5 tooth difference on my Trek 520 from the factory
(50/45). Currently I run a 48/45 in front. The half step front
derailleur is shaped so the back cage does not hit the middle ring
when you shift onto the slightly larger outer ring. It might also
have various shapes on the back cage to allow it to shift between the
similar sized rings quicker. Which you do with half step gearing more
often than with alpine gearing.

Alpine gearing as I understand it, or as Shimano probably meant it, is
a large jump between chainrings. Like we do now days. You basically
shift all the way up or down on one chainring without shifting the
front at all. You have lots of gearing overlap, but all of your
shifting more or less is handled by the rear shifter. I would guess
the alpine back cage is deeper to handle the bigger jump between rings
and to be able to shove the chain sideways when shifting in the front.
The deeper cage will not hit the middle ring when on the outer ring
because there is a 10 or more tooth difference between front rings.

Hopefully Mr. Brown or others will jump in and explain the official
differences between the front derailleurs.

ccollins asked: What does Half-step mean?

Sheldon has the answer of course:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_h.html#halfstep

I've got one bike set up this way. It shifts very well, but it does
require lots of double shifts if you feel the need to have the perfect
gear all the time. Since I started spending lots of time riding
single speed, I've lost the need to have the 'perfect' gear, so the
half step seems just fine. It's pretty much neccessary to also have a
granny gear with it, just in case, as half step reduces the overall
range of gears available on the 2 main rings.

ccollins wrote in message ...
snip
Tell me more? I have two old touring bikes with Shimano front derailuers
and they are listed as "Alpine" and the other is listed as "Half step"
What's supposed to be the difference? What does Half-step mean? Alpine?


"Half-step" means the percentage difference between the chainrings is
half that of adjacent cogs. This means you can make small gear
adjustments with a front shift. In more practical terms, it means the
outer chainrings are 4 to 6 teeth apart, e.g. 34-44-48. The front
derailleur's cage is profiled to allow this.

"Alpine" is the nearly universal setup nowadays: large steps on the
chainrings (24-36-48) and lots of cogs. The front derailleur's inner
cage extends far below the outer cage to make the shifts possible.

See also
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_a.html#alpine
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_h.html#halfstep

Jeff