First road bike: braking?

On 1 Sep 2003 19:04:43 -0700, Matt J wrote:
Why does it seem that road bikes don't stop as well? For example, I
have no problem getting the rear wheel off the ground on my MTB (disc
brake, v-brake, or canti), whereas on my road bike, I can't do it
without leaning way over the bars. This isn't a question of tires -

Ideas?

Let's all give more information regarding our brake ancedotes.

My ancedote:
Test riding the road bike that I own now, downhill on a city
street at probably 30 or 35 mph. The bike has 105 levers,
calipers, and pads, and Jagwire cables and housings.

My hands were in the drops. This is an important note; it's
much harder, IME, to apply big pressure to the levers when
on the hoods than when in the drops. I usually ride in the
drops when I'm going fast or in a dangerous situations,
most likely for the comfort of having braking and shifting
most available to me in my time of need.

Already had my weight back, prepared for emergencies, when I
saw a car pulling out from a side street. I panic-braked with
both hands, and shifted my weight back even more, to the limit.
The rear tire was unweighted, skidded, then in the air an inch
or two before I was able to conciously moderate my braking
force to get the rear tire back on the ground and skidding.

I had more brake power than I could possibly have used; the
only way to use more brake power would be with additional
weight on the rear -- a trailer would have sufficed. G

The verdict: 105 brakes, 210 pound rider, 30 mph, downhill,
dry pavement, more than sufficient power from brakes.


Matt
--
Rick Onanian

Alan Hoyle wrote in -
berlin.de:

I'm in the market for my first road bike. I currently use a '94 Trek
970 mountain bike with slicks for commuting (3 miles) that I've
upgraded several times over the years (notably XT V brakes, Rockshox
FSX carbon fork, and a few other things) but I've been doing some
slightly longer rides and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my
hands get numb after a while.

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all
seemed to be more comfortable and seem more efficient, the brakes have
invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to. Is this
universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

-alan




2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:26:47 +0000, Mr. E. Mann wrote:

rides and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my hands get numb
after a while.

Primarily because mountain bars do not allow the several hand positions
that road bars do.

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed
to be more comfortable and seem more efficient, the brakes have
invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to. Is this
universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

Less powerful than your V-brakes? Possibly. But they have plenty of
power to stop you. I typically ride with my hands on the hoods a lot --
as do most road riders -- and can stop using only two fingers of each hand
on the levers, without going down to the drops. This includes hard stops,
except that the back brakes is not used for those, so it's just two
fingers of my left hand.

I think you will find that you have enough strength in your hands to send
yourself over the bars of a road bike. That is more braking strength than
you need.

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

No, not better. Road bars offer more positions for your hands, and allow
you to get your body out of the wind while still having control over the
brakes and gears. Bar ends don't do that. To have control of the brakes
and shifters on a mountain bike, you need your hands on the grips.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong.
_`\(,_ | He's not the kind you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian
(_)/ (_) | Anderson

David L. Johnson:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:26:47 +0000, Mr. E. Mann wrote:

rides and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my hands get numb
after a while.

Primarily because mountain bars do not allow the several hand positions
that road bars do.


These come at costs, though, and become uncomfortable over time. See
below.

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

No, not better. Road bars offer more positions for your hands, and allow
you to get your body out of the wind while still having control over the
brakes and gears. Bar ends don't do that. To have control of the brakes
and shifters on a mountain bike, you need your hands on the grips.

Not true about drop bars. The only time your hands are in position for
easy operation of the brakes is when they are in the hoods, except when
the brakes have extensions which allow operation on the top of the bars.
Even at the hoods the grip you can have on the brake levers don't
allow as good leverage as you can have in a straight bar. It's a pretty
awkward setup, in the ergonomic sense, which takes getting used to.

The hand positions on drop bars come at the cost of changing your body
angle as well. The result is that riding on the lowest part can only be
done over short periods since it changes the weight taken up by your
hands, and your neck gets more strained looking at the road by the upper
body being positioned lower down.

In article k.net,
says...

....

These come at costs, though, and become uncomfortable over time. See
below.

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

No, not better. Road bars offer more positions for your hands, and allow
you to get your body out of the wind while still having control over the
brakes and gears. Bar ends don't do that. To have control of the brakes
and shifters on a mountain bike, you need your hands on the grips.

Not true about drop bars. The only time your hands are in position for
easy operation of the brakes is when they are in the hoods, except when

And in the drops.


the brakes have extensions which allow operation on the top of the bars.
Even at the hoods the grip you can have on the brake levers don't
allow as good leverage as you can have in a straight bar.

True, but irrelevant. I can lock up my wheels from the hoods if I try
just a little. For any normal situations, one or two fingers is
plenty.

It's a pretty
awkward setup, in the ergonomic sense, which takes getting used to.

The hand positions on drop bars come at the cost of changing your body
angle as well. The result is that riding on the lowest part can only be
done over short periods since it changes the weight taken up by your
hands, and your neck gets more strained looking at the road by the upper
body being positioned lower down.

Then raise them up a bit...

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:26:47 GMT, Mr. E. Mann wrote:

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

I (the OP) have bar ends on my mountain bike and I was still getting
numb on shortish long rides (~12 miles or so). My 3-mile commute was
never a problem at all.

Last week, I spent way too much money on a road bike and and I'm
loving it so far. I rode 22 miles on Saturday morning and didn't have
any of the problems I'd had on shorter road rides with my MTB. The
braking is different than the v-brakes, but I'm getting used to it
very quickly. Heck, the whole ride feel is very different, and I
really like it so far...

-alan "thinking about a century" hoyle

--
Alan Hoyle - - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

On 22 Sep 2003 20:17:11 GMT, Alan Hoyle wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:26:47 GMT, Mr. E. Mann wrote:

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

I (the OP) have bar ends on my mountain bike and I was still getting
numb on shortish long rides (~12 miles or so). My 3-mile commute was
never a problem at all.

Last week, I spent way too much money on a road bike and and I'm
loving it so far. I rode 22 miles on Saturday morning and didn't have
any of the problems I'd had on shorter road rides with my MTB. The
braking is different than the v-brakes, but I'm getting used to it
very quickly. Heck, the whole ride feel is very different, and I
really like it so far...

-alan "thinking about a century" hoyle


Still think about moving your hands a lot, particularly your right hand,
which stays at the shifter.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:52:54 +0000, Jose Rizal wrote:

These come at costs, though, and become uncomfortable over time. See
below.

Drop bars become uncomfortable over time? Compared to mountain bike bars?
So, this is why long-distnace tourists all use drop bars? To be
uncomfortable?


2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

No, not better. Road bars offer more positions for your hands, and
allow you to get your body out of the wind while still having control
over the brakes and gears. Bar ends don't do that. To have control of
the brakes and shifters on a mountain bike, you need your hands on the
grips.

Not true about drop bars. The only time your hands are in position for
easy operation of the brakes is when they are in the hoods, except when
the brakes have extensions which allow operation on the top of the bars.

Not at all. Hands on the drops can easily reach both the brakes and the
shifters (except fo Sora) of modern units. True, not on the tops, but
riding on the tops is only for a change of pace. Modern cross and touring
bikes do have secondary brake levers to operate on the tops, but I don't
find them necessary.

Even at the hoods the grip you can have on the brake levers don't
allow as good leverage as you can have in a straight bar.

True, but that is not the point. You have more than enough leverage to
send you over the bars in an endo. That is more than enough leverage for
any stop.

It's a pretty
awkward setup, in the ergonomic sense, which takes getting used to.

Yes, it does take getting used to. But it's like riding a bike; once you
learn...

The hand positions on drop bars come at the cost of changing your body
angle as well. The result is that riding on the lowest part can only be
done over short periods since it changes the weight taken up by your
hands, and your neck gets more strained looking at the road by the upper
body being positioned lower down.

Look, you've obviously not ridden a road bike much. So, you are
uncomfortable on one. If you rode it more, you would become more
comfortable. Lots of us do that. Don't pass it off as impossible because
you are unfamiliar with it.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | This is my religion. There is no need for temples; no need for
_`\(,_ | complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our
(_)/ (_) | temple. The philosophy is kindness. --The Dalai Lama

David Kerber:

In article k.net,
says...

Not true about drop bars. The only time your hands are in position for
easy operation of the brakes is when they are in the hoods, except when

And in the drops.

I wrote *easy* operation. Only when your hands are in the most forward
part of the drops, where the curve to the hoods are, can you operate the
brakes. This requires your forearms to be almost horizontal, which
makes it a very uncomfortable position for any length of time since it
is not a good weight-bearing position.

the brakes have extensions which allow operation on the top of the bars.
Even at the hoods the grip you can have on the brake levers don't
allow as good leverage as you can have in a straight bar.

True, but irrelevant. I can lock up my wheels from the hoods if I try
just a little. For any normal situations, one or two fingers is
plenty.

Not irrelevant in terms of comfort and control. Hood braking requires
mostly your middle and ring fingers, with the fingers being too close to
the pivot point of the brake lever. The point is not to lock up the
wheels, but to be able to modulate braking; not as easy as with straight
handlebars.

It's a pretty
awkward setup, in the ergonomic sense, which takes getting used to.

The hand positions on drop bars come at the cost of changing your body
angle as well. The result is that riding on the lowest part can only be
done over short periods since it changes the weight taken up by your
hands, and your neck gets more strained looking at the road by the upper
body being positioned lower down.

Then raise them up a bit...

Which changes the height of the hood and top parts of the bars. There
is no getting around the shape of drop bars.

Alan Hoyle:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:26:47 GMT, Mr. E. Mann wrote:

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

I (the OP) have bar ends on my mountain bike and I was still getting
numb on shortish long rides (~12 miles or so). My 3-mile commute was
never a problem at all.

Last week, I spent way too much money on a road bike and and I'm
loving it so far. I rode 22 miles on Saturday morning and didn't have
any of the problems I'd had on shorter road rides with my MTB. The
braking is different than the v-brakes, but I'm getting used to it
very quickly. Heck, the whole ride feel is very different, and I
really like it so far...

There's nothing in what you post which suggests anything other than a
poor fit on your mountain bike.