Tour 2009

I am now well on my way of planning my 2009 tour in Europe.

This years epic is to get to Rotterdam via Hull by bike and ferry and then
train to Berlin, where the tour proper will start. A somewhat later than usual
starting date (last weekend in May) has been selected since it is a lot
further North than my previous trips. Hopefully it will be a drier tour this
year!

I intend to visit friends there for a couple of days -- and then to spend
about a week to 10 days exploring the city including a foray into Poland ( I
wonder if I could get a job there!). Then I shall start on my way back via
Hamburg and then the North Sea Coastal route round Holland back to Rotterdam
and home.

My reason for posting this is to try and clarify the position with regard to
travelling by train with bike ( no problem) AND a TRAILER in Holland and
Germany.

I am in early correspondence with "Die Bahn" -- an excellent website -- to
make sure there is no problem ( I am avoiding ICE trains) but it would be good
to hear from anyone who has actual experience of getting on a train in
Holland/Germany with a trailer!

I ask this because I hit a problem in 2008 in France, when I had an injured
knee, where "they" would not let me on a train with my 2 wheeled Carry
Freedom.

My thinking is that, should this present a problem, I will revert to carrying
4 panniers again. I specifically need to be able to travel from Rotterdam to
Berlin with my bike in "touring setup" and it would be nice to have the
reassurance that, given a recurrence of my gammy left leg, I can escape by
train for a couple of days if necessary.

So any Nederlanders on urc with advice! Or indeed anyone! I would prefer
answers with real experience -- not theories!!!!

BTW from reading many accounts about the North Sea Cycle Route, I shall
certainly not stick to the "official" track but it is a very useful planning
guide. I have been a bit concerned about prevailing winds round the North
coast of Holland, since I am going in the "wrong" direction, but experience
seems to show that strong winds will be encountered in many directions!!!!! In
any case I am not intending to "make kms" every day but to enjoy a holiday on
my bike.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk( under Major reconstruction)

On 12 jan, 10:35, "Trevor A Panther"
wrote:
snip
So any Nederlanders on urc with advice! Or indeed anyone! I would prefer
answers with real experience -- not theories!!!!

BTW from reading many accounts about the North Sea Cycle Route, I shall
certainly not stick to the "official" track but it is a very useful planning
guide. I have been a bit concerned about prevailing winds *round the North
coast of Holland, since I am going in the "wrong" direction, but experience
seems to show that strong winds will be encountered in many directions!!!!! In
any case I am not intending to "make kms" every day but to enjoy a holiday on
my bike.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk( under Major reconstruction)

Trevor,

It is not allowed to take a trailer, some information can be found
here
http://www.fietsen.123.nl/treinenfiets.htm
in dutch however. It is also not allowed to take a bike during rush
hour.
It even states that bags and other things should be removed from the
bike during the trip.
It all depends on the people that you encounter during the trip. If
one official from the railroad thinks it is ok, it is no guarantee
that you will never encounter any problems. Surely, people in Holland
are very relaxed in general. But that knowledge is of no use if you
encounter a bureaucrat.

perhaps a tip, there is a nice exhibition in Tilburg on 4, 5 july 2009
called Cycle Vision.
Greetings,
Jack

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On 12 jan, 10:35, "Trevor A Panther"
wrote:
snip
So any Nederlanders on urc with advice! Or indeed anyone! I would prefer
answers with real experience -- not theories!!!!

BTW from reading many accounts about the North Sea Cycle Route, I shall
certainly not stick to the "official" track but it is a very useful planning
guide. I have been a bit concerned about prevailing winds round the North
coast of Holland, since I am going in the "wrong" direction, but experience
seems to show that strong winds will be encountered in many directions!!!!!
In
any case I am not intending to "make kms" every day but to enjoy a holiday
on
my bike.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk( under Major
reconstruction)

Trevor,

It is not allowed to take a trailer, some information can be found
here
http://www.fietsen.123.nl/treinenfiets.htm
in dutch however. It is also not allowed to take a bike during rush
hour.
It even states that bags and other things should be removed from the
bike during the trip.
It all depends on the people that you encounter during the trip. If
one official from the railroad thinks it is ok, it is no guarantee
that you will never encounter any problems. Surely, people in Holland
are very relaxed in general. But that knowledge is of no use if you
encounter a bureaucrat.

perhaps a tip, there is a nice exhibition in Tilburg on 4, 5 july 2009
called Cycle Vision.
Greetings,
Jack



Tkx Jack.

Although I am fairly fluent in German and French and can get by in Italian,
Spanish and still have a smattering of Arabic -- I have absolutely no Dutch
( Nederlandish?) at all ---- beyond "Astrublief" ( Please?) and "Dank u wel"
( Thank you) and don't even know how to spell them either!

So that web site is, sadly, complete "double dutch" to me

So it looks as though I might have to carry panniers again! Pity

I wonder if international trains might have different rules -- I expect
ot ----- it is always difficult using ICE ( Grerman expresses) and TGV (
French) unless the bike is packaged and travels seperately

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk (Under major reconstruction)

On 2009-01-12, Trevor A Panther wrote:
BTW from reading many accounts about the North Sea Cycle Route, I shall
certainly not stick to the "official" track but it is a very useful planning
guide. I have been a bit concerned about prevailing winds round the North
coast of Holland, since I am going in the "wrong" direction, but experience
seems to show that strong winds will be encountered in many directions!!!!! In
You might reconsider if you could have seen the grim faces on the cyclists
coming the other way on a fantastic wind-assisted run up the Noord-Holland
coast on our .nl tour last year. You could of course take a more inland route,
there's hardly a shortage of cycle paths. BTW, I recommend the Falk maps over
the ANWB ones - clearer, all streets in towns shown and most importantly
campsites are marked.

cheers,

Finlay

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:50:12 GMT, "Trevor A Panther"
wrote:

Tkx Jack.

Although I am fairly fluent in German and French and can get by in Italian,
Spanish and still have a smattering of Arabic -- I have absolutely no Dutch
( Nederlandish?) at all ---- beyond "Astrublief" ( Please?) and "Dank u wel"
( Thank you) and don't even know how to spell them either!

So that web site is, sadly, complete "double dutch" to me

So it looks as though I might have to carry panniers again! Pity

I wonder if international trains might have different rules -- I expect
ot ----- it is always difficult using ICE ( Grerman expresses) and TGV (
French) unless the bike is packaged and travels seperately

Can't you flat pack your Carry Freedom? I have a very non-standard CF
trailer which takes a few moments to dismantle and flat pack. OK -
pushing a bike while carrying a flat pack trailer and baggage would be
a right pain and possibly totally impractical, but if you could tell
the guard that after stowing your bike you would flat pack the trailer
and put it onto the luggage rack as soon as you board the train you
might get away with it.

"Tom Crispin" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:50:12 GMT, "Trevor A Panther"
wrote:

Tkx Jack.

Although I am fairly fluent in German and French and can get by in Italian,
Spanish and still have a smattering of Arabic -- I have absolutely no Dutch
( Nederlandish?) at all ---- beyond "Astrublief" ( Please?) and "Dank u
wel"
( Thank you) and don't even know how to spell them either!

So that web site is, sadly, complete "double dutch" to me

So it looks as though I might have to carry panniers again! Pity

I wonder if international trains might have different rules -- I expect
ot ----- it is always difficult using ICE ( Grerman expresses) and TGV (
French) unless the bike is packaged and travels seperately

Can't you flat pack your Carry Freedom? I have a very non-standard CF
trailer which takes a few moments to dismantle and flat pack. OK -
pushing a bike while carrying a flat pack trailer and baggage would be
a right pain and possibly totally impractical, but if you could tell
the guard that after stowing your bike you would flat pack the trailer
and put it onto the luggage rack as soon as you board the train you
might get away with it.


Tom.

That is a sensible idea at first glance. I could ride to the station early and
then break down the Carry Freedom and bungee all the bits together My trailer
bag with tent strapped on top has got a shoulder carry strap and then the bike
just has one pannier on left rear with tools and spares for daily travelling.
So it would be bike and two pieces of luggage! Sounds acceptable to me and I
will consider it very seriously! There is one change of trains at Amerfoort
with an hour between connections so it should not be too much hassle

My only worry is what happens if I am refused entry to the train! At the very
beginning of my holiday! With a ticket paid for !

It does seem a reasonable way round the problem. I presume there is no limit
as to the amount of baggage I can take!

I have plenty of time to think about it and have a few other ideas bouncing
around in my mind. I could reverse my route and cycle to Berlin and then train
back to the Dutch border somewhere and cycle back to Rotterdam. But I would
prefer not to do that!

I shall try and elicit some more information about bikes on trains in Holland
and Germany but I think Tom's idea is a good solution.

I have also sent an e-mail to my German friends in Berlin for them to find
about trailers on trains too.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk (Under major reconstruction)