Crank Arm Length

I have been using crank arms of 175 mm forever. One of the problems I have always had to put up with is that my knees always hurt for the first half hour of a ride until everything loosens up. I was looking for a Campy Ultradrive crankset and the only one I could get had arms of 172.5 mm. After using these things for a couple of months my knees no longer hurt for the first or any part of the ride. Conventional wisdom is that someone with 36" legs should use 175 arms but perhaps it has more to do with the geometry of your ankles and knees than a broad statement,

I have had the same problem with handlebar width. My shoulders are 44 cm wide but I get sore shoulders on long rides. Dropping down to 40 cm bars makes a huge difference in the tiredness leading to pain in my shoulders. This also extends the distance I can ride because a lot of the fatigue and pain isn't there.

Stem length is also a problem. Bikes, especially the latest carbon bikes have long top tubes which means that the 120 mm stems are not the "standard" I have experimented with stem lengths but it has to be fit to each bike individually. 62 cm bikes used to all have 58 or 59 cm top tubes. Now a 58 cm bike is likely to have a 62 c-c top tube. Now this does have a certain advantage: the longer top tube places you more directly over the center of gravity of the bike and between the wheels. But this also means that you have to be careful with saddle placement and stem length. When this is correct, like on my Colnago, you tend to set your fastest average speeds.

On 16/3/21 2:56 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have been using crank arms of 175 mm forever. One of the problems I
have always had to put up with is that my knees always hurt for the
first half hour of a ride until everything loosens up. I was looking
for a Campy Ultradrive crankset and the only one I could get had arms
of 172.5 mm. After using these things for a couple of months my knees
no longer hurt for the first or any part of the ride. Conventional
wisdom is that someone with 36" legs should use 175 arms but perhaps
it has more to do with the geometry of your ankles and knees than a
broad statement,

Perhaps. I'm near 6' 3" tall or 190cm, and I've used 175mm cranks for
probably 30 years, and never had sore knees.


I have had the same problem with handlebar width. My shoulders are 44
cm wide but I get sore shoulders on long rides. Dropping down to 40
cm bars makes a huge difference in the tiredness leading to pain in
my shoulders. This also extends the distance I can ride because a
lot of the fatigue and pain isn't there.

I don't often hang on to the outside of the bars, preferring to rest my
hands close to the stem, so 44 cm bars are fine for me. My gravel bike
has wider bars than my road bike, but both are reasonably comfortable
for many hours in the saddle.

Stem length is also a problem. Bikes, especially the latest carbon
bikes have long top tubes which means that the 120 mm stems are not
the "standard" I have experimented with stem lengths but it has to be
fit to each bike individually. 62 cm bikes used to all have 58 or 59
cm top tubes. Now a 58 cm bike is likely to have a 62 c-c top tube.
Now this does have a certain advantage: the longer top tube places
you more directly over the center of gravity of the bike and between
the wheels. But this also means that you have to be careful with
saddle placement and stem length. When this is correct, like on my
Colnago, you tend to set your fastest average speeds.


Thankfully a variety of stems are readily available for most bikes. The
saddle position with respect to the bottom bracket and crank length is
the first thing to get right, then fiddle with the stem length and angle
for comfortable bar position. It's not rocket science.

--
JS

Op woensdag 17 maart 2021 om 08:01:30 UTC+1 schreef James:
On 16/3/21 2:56 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have been using crank arms of 175 mm forever. One of the problems I
have always had to put up with is that my knees always hurt for the
first half hour of a ride until everything loosens up. I was looking
for a Campy Ultradrive crankset and the only one I could get had arms
of 172.5 mm. After using these things for a couple of months my knees
no longer hurt for the first or any part of the ride. Conventional
wisdom is that someone with 36" legs should use 175 arms but perhaps
it has more to do with the geometry of your ankles and knees than a
broad statement,
Perhaps. I'm near 6' 3" tall or 190cm, and I've used 175mm cranks for
probably 30 years, and never had sore knees.

I have had the same problem with handlebar width. My shoulders are 44
cm wide but I get sore shoulders on long rides. Dropping down to 40
cm bars makes a huge difference in the tiredness leading to pain in
my shoulders. This also extends the distance I can ride because a
lot of the fatigue and pain isn't there.
I don't often hang on to the outside of the bars, preferring to rest my
hands close to the stem, so 44 cm bars are fine for me. My gravel bike
has wider bars than my road bike, but both are reasonably comfortable
for many hours in the saddle.
Stem length is also a problem. Bikes, especially the latest carbon
bikes have long top tubes which means that the 120 mm stems are not
the "standard" I have experimented with stem lengths but it has to be
fit to each bike individually. 62 cm bikes used to all have 58 or 59
cm top tubes. Now a 58 cm bike is likely to have a 62 c-c top tube.
Now this does have a certain advantage: the longer top tube places
you more directly over the center of gravity of the bike and between
the wheels. But this also means that you have to be careful with
saddle placement and stem length. When this is correct, like on my
Colnago, you tend to set your fastest average speeds.

Thankfully a variety of stems are readily available for most bikes. The
saddle position with respect to the bottom bracket and crank length is
the first thing to get right, then fiddle with the stem length and angle
for comfortable bar position. It's not rocket science.

+1.
For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly and at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia where a cue card looks like this:
- go straight for 60 km and then turn right,
- after 50 km turn left
etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake on a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the bar is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

Lou

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 3:33:04 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op woensdag 17 maart 2021 om 08:01:30 UTC+1 schreef James:
On 16/3/21 2:56 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have been using crank arms of 175 mm forever. One of the problems I
have always had to put up with is that my knees always hurt for the
first half hour of a ride until everything loosens up. I was looking
for a Campy Ultradrive crankset and the only one I could get had arms
of 172.5 mm. After using these things for a couple of months my knees
no longer hurt for the first or any part of the ride. Conventional
wisdom is that someone with 36" legs should use 175 arms but perhaps
it has more to do with the geometry of your ankles and knees than a
broad statement,
Perhaps. I'm near 6' 3" tall or 190cm, and I've used 175mm cranks for
probably 30 years, and never had sore knees.

I have had the same problem with handlebar width. My shoulders are 44
cm wide but I get sore shoulders on long rides. Dropping down to 40
cm bars makes a huge difference in the tiredness leading to pain in
my shoulders. This also extends the distance I can ride because a
lot of the fatigue and pain isn't there.
I don't often hang on to the outside of the bars, preferring to rest my
hands close to the stem, so 44 cm bars are fine for me. My gravel bike
has wider bars than my road bike, but both are reasonably comfortable
for many hours in the saddle.
Stem length is also a problem. Bikes, especially the latest carbon
bikes have long top tubes which means that the 120 mm stems are not
the "standard" I have experimented with stem lengths but it has to be
fit to each bike individually. 62 cm bikes used to all have 58 or 59
cm top tubes. Now a 58 cm bike is likely to have a 62 c-c top tube.
Now this does have a certain advantage: the longer top tube places
you more directly over the center of gravity of the bike and between
the wheels. But this also means that you have to be careful with
saddle placement and stem length. When this is correct, like on my
Colnago, you tend to set your fastest average speeds.

Thankfully a variety of stems are readily available for most bikes. The
saddle position with respect to the bottom bracket and crank length is
the first thing to get right, then fiddle with the stem length and angle
for comfortable bar position. It's not rocket science.
+1.
For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly and at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia where a cue card looks like this:
- go straight for 60 km and then turn right,
- after 50 km turn left
etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake on a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the bar is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

With you there is no way that you can ride with your hands off of the hoods for any distance without having to slam on the brakes of shift. a 42 cm bar or even a 40 is plenty wide to retain complete control even of a gravel bike in heavy terrain.

On 18/3/21 2:27 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 3:33:04 AM UTC-7,
wrote:

+1. For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default
position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly
and at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia
where a cue card looks like this: - go straight for 60 km and then
turn right, - after 50 km turn left etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake
on a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even
when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can
adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't
adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the
bar is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

With you there is no way that you can ride with your hands off of the
hoods for any distance without having to slam on the brakes of shift.
a 42 cm bar or even a 40 is plenty wide to retain complete control
even of a gravel bike in heavy terrain.


This was relatively heavy terrain for my gravel bike.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CKiBRuFMpzgvdz3J9

Possibly even Joerg rated! I didn't see any mountain lions though.

--
JS

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 18/3/21 2:27 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 3:33:04 AM UTC-7,
wrote:

+1. For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default
position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly
and at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia
where a cue card looks like this: - go straight for 60 km and then
turn right, - after 50 km turn left etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake
on a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even
when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can
adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't
adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the
bar is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

With you there is no way that you can ride with your hands off of the
hoods for any distance without having to slam on the brakes of shift.
a 42 cm bar or even a 40 is plenty wide to retain complete control
even of a gravel bike in heavy terrain.

This was relatively heavy terrain for my gravel bike.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CKiBRuFMpzgvdz3J9

Possibly even Joerg rated! I didn't see any mountain lions though.

Where was that picture taken James? It looks like it is in Grass Valley park. They cut down all of the original Redwoods and put those damn Eucalyptus in there. They have similar sections in Redwood Park. I rode on terrain like that commonly before deciding to give up that sort of effort for road riding.

On 3/18/2021 1:52 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 18/3/21 2:27 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 3:33:04 AM UTC-7,
wrote:

+1. For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default
position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly
and at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia
where a cue card looks like this: - go straight for 60 km and then
turn right, - after 50 km turn left etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake
on a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even
when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can
adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't
adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the
bar is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

With you there is no way that you can ride with your hands off of the
hoods for any distance without having to slam on the brakes of shift.
a 42 cm bar or even a 40 is plenty wide to retain complete control
even of a gravel bike in heavy terrain.

This was relatively heavy terrain for my gravel bike.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CKiBRuFMpzgvdz3J9

Possibly even Joerg rated! I didn't see any mountain lions though.

Where was that picture taken James? It looks like it is in Grass Valley park. They cut down all of the original Redwoods and put those damn Eucalyptus in there.

I think you're off by something like 5000 miles, Tom. (There's that
memory problem again.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:38:42 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/18/2021 1:52 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 18/3/21 2:27 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 3:33:04 AM UTC-7,
wrote:

+1. For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default
position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly
and at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia
where a cue card looks like this: - go straight for 60 km and then
turn right, - after 50 km turn left etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake
on a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even
when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can
adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't
adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the
bar is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

With you there is no way that you can ride with your hands off of the
hoods for any distance without having to slam on the brakes of shift.
a 42 cm bar or even a 40 is plenty wide to retain complete control
even of a gravel bike in heavy terrain.

This was relatively heavy terrain for my gravel bike.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CKiBRuFMpzgvdz3J9

Possibly even Joerg rated! I didn't see any mountain lions though.

Where was that picture taken James? It looks like it is in Grass Valley park. They cut down all of the original Redwoods and put those damn Eucalyptus in there.
I think you're off by something like 5000 miles, Tom. (There's that
memory problem again.)

Tell me Frank, where is mileage being discussed? You don't even appear to be able to keep track of who is saying what. Is there something else wrong with your mental state?

On 3/18/2021 2:45 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 11:38:42 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/18/2021 1:52 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 18/3/21 2:27 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 3:33:04 AM UTC-7,
wrote:

+1. For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default
position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly
and at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia
where a cue card looks like this: - go straight for 60 km and then
turn right, - after 50 km turn left etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake
on a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even
when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can
adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't
adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the
bar is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

With you there is no way that you can ride with your hands off of the
hoods for any distance without having to slam on the brakes of shift.
a 42 cm bar or even a 40 is plenty wide to retain complete control
even of a gravel bike in heavy terrain.

This was relatively heavy terrain for my gravel bike.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CKiBRuFMpzgvdz3J9

Possibly even Joerg rated! I didn't see any mountain lions though.

Where was that picture taken James? It looks like it is in Grass Valley park. They cut down all of the original Redwoods and put those damn Eucalyptus in there.
I think you're off by something like 5000 miles, Tom. (There's that
memory problem again.)

Tell me Frank, where is mileage being discussed? You don't even appear to be able to keep track of who is saying what. Is there something else wrong with your mental state?


ROTFL!

I was talking geography, Tom. I'm sorry that confused you. :-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 10:52:47 -0700, Tom Kunich scribed:

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 18/3/21 2:27 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 3:33:04 AM UTC-7,
wrote:

+1. For a gravel bike and for me also for a road bike the default
position is on the hoods where you can shift and brake instantly and
at the same time. An exception mayby for people in Australia where a
cue card looks like this: - go straight for 60 km and then turn
right, - after 50 km turn left etc. ;-)

Or of course you have the skills of Frank who can shift and brake on
a bumpy downhill with downtube shifters.

Make sure that you are comfortable in that position for hours even
when climbing. Make a test ride without bar tape first so you can
adjust the shifter without the need to remove the bar tape. Don't
adjust the shifter position by tilting your bar. The tilt of the bar
is determined by a comfortable position in the drops.

With you there is no way that you can ride with your hands off of the
hoods for any distance without having to slam on the brakes of shift.
a 42 cm bar or even a 40 is plenty wide to retain complete control
even of a gravel bike in heavy terrain.

This was relatively heavy terrain for my gravel bike.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CKiBRuFMpzgvdz3J9

Possibly even Joerg rated! I didn't see any mountain lions though.

Where was that picture taken James?

My guess it is a typical Aussie east coast forestry trail, or someones
track to their bush block. It is enjoyable riding, not the least as you
can hear the idiot ICE coming fom a long way.