Stiffness/load testing jig

This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?

I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.

Thanks!

On 14/4/21 9:45 am, Michael Briggs wrote:
This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?

I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.

Thanks!


Sorry, I can't help with a testing jig.

Is this article about you and your quest?

https://road.cc/content/feature/how-...n-frame-280579

Good luck!

--
JS

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:45:36 PM UTC-7, Michael Briggs wrote:
This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?

I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.

Michael, most of these are built by the people using them. They are very specific to the job at hand. You have to have some engineering expertise in order to calculate the loads. This is something that Frank would be a good person to ask about. When he isn't being a jerk he does understand mechanical engineering well.

On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 10:26:39 UTC+10, James wrote:
On 14/4/21 9:45 am, Michael Briggs wrote:
This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?

I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.

Thanks!

Sorry, I can't help with a testing jig.

Is this article about you and your quest?

https://road.cc/content/feature/how-...n-frame-280579

Good luck!

--
JS

Thanks James. It's a complex space - but we're getting there

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:45:33 -0700 (PDT), Michael Briggs
wrote:

This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?
I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.
Thanks!

Are you destructive load testing to the point of failure? In that
case, just secure one end to the component you are testing, add
pressure or tension to the other end, until it breaks. Somehow, I
don't think that's what you want. My guess(tm) is that you a
non-destructive test, that leave the bicycle in sufficiently good
shape to be rideable. You would not do well if someone submitted a
bicycle to you for testing and the frame fell apart when subsequently
ridden.

Therefore, in my never humble opinion, I suggest you forget about load
testing and concentrate on crack, fault, void, gap, etc inspection.
These might help for ultrasonic inspection:
https://ruckuscomp.com/inspection
1,000 bicycles inspected per year.
https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/insight/ruckus-composites-inspects-thousands-of-bikes-with-one-ultrasonic-thickness-gage/
https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/flaw-detectors/

Ever wonder how radiologists can look at various types of scans and
see problems that most others fail to see? The main trick is that
after seeing thousands of scans and images, they know what is
considered normal. Any deviation from normal is grounds for
suspicion. However, there are other tricks. In order for a
comparison to be recognized as normal, the scan needs to produced in
exactly the same manner, with the exact same settings, as the
thousands of other scans of the same body area. In the past, the
radiologists were having problems seeing a kidney stone. I suggested
some image enhancement, which was immediately declared heresy by
everyone involved. All the CT scans of the midsection had to take in
the exact same way, with the exact same settings, etc or the analysts
would never see a problem. If you're planning to use AI to detect
voids and such in the CF layers, you'll probably run into the same
problem.

Also, there's no need to use ultrasound. CT scans and X-rays have
been used to inspect bicycle frames:

"Complete CT-scan of a carbon racing bike [2010]"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve_Oa7jl_kQ

"Realtime X-ray robotic inspection of a carbon bike frame"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QREKMI84vJg

I suggest you talk to the people using the same tools for medical or
industrial inspection and ask them what they can do with their
equipment. No need to re-invent the wheel when you can borrow one
from people next door. Good luck.




--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 20:17:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

(...)

"Nondestructive Evaluation of Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frames Using
Infrared Thermography"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5712988/

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/14/2021 10:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:45:33 -0700 (PDT), Michael Briggs
wrote:

This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?
I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.
Thanks!

Are you destructive load testing to the point of failure? In that
case, just secure one end to the component you are testing, add
pressure or tension to the other end, until it breaks. Somehow, I
don't think that's what you want. My guess(tm) is that you a
non-destructive test, that leave the bicycle in sufficiently good
shape to be rideable. You would not do well if someone submitted a
bicycle to you for testing and the frame fell apart when subsequently
ridden.

Therefore, in my never humble opinion, I suggest you forget about load
testing and concentrate on crack, fault, void, gap, etc inspection.
These might help for ultrasonic inspection:
https://ruckuscomp.com/inspection
1,000 bicycles inspected per year.
https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/insight/ruckus-composites-inspects-thousands-of-bikes-with-one-ultrasonic-thickness-gage/
https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/flaw-detectors/

Ever wonder how radiologists can look at various types of scans and
see problems that most others fail to see? The main trick is that
after seeing thousands of scans and images, they know what is
considered normal. Any deviation from normal is grounds for
suspicion. However, there are other tricks. In order for a
comparison to be recognized as normal, the scan needs to produced in
exactly the same manner, with the exact same settings, as the
thousands of other scans of the same body area. In the past, the
radiologists were having problems seeing a kidney stone. I suggested
some image enhancement, which was immediately declared heresy by
everyone involved. All the CT scans of the midsection had to take in
the exact same way, with the exact same settings, etc or the analysts
would never see a problem. If you're planning to use AI to detect
voids and such in the CF layers, you'll probably run into the same
problem.

Also, there's no need to use ultrasound. CT scans and X-rays have
been used to inspect bicycle frames:

"Complete CT-scan of a carbon racing bike [2010]"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve_Oa7jl_kQ

"Realtime X-ray robotic inspection of a carbon bike frame"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QREKMI84vJg

I suggest you talk to the people using the same tools for medical or
industrial inspection and ask them what they can do with their
equipment. No need to re-invent the wheel when you can borrow one
from people next door. Good luck.





+1

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 8:17:52 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:45:33 -0700 (PDT), Michael Briggs
wrote:

This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?
I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.
Thanks!
Are you destructive load testing to the point of failure? In that
case, just secure one end to the component you are testing, add
pressure or tension to the other end, until it breaks. Somehow, I
don't think that's what you want. My guess(tm) is that you a
non-destructive test, that leave the bicycle in sufficiently good
shape to be rideable. You would not do well if someone submitted a
bicycle to you for testing and the frame fell apart when subsequently
ridden.

Therefore, in my never humble opinion, I suggest you forget about load
testing and concentrate on crack, fault, void, gap, etc inspection.
These might help for ultrasonic inspection:
https://ruckuscomp.com/inspection
1,000 bicycles inspected per year.
https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/insight/ruckus-composites-inspects-thousands-of-bikes-with-one-ultrasonic-thickness-gage/
https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/flaw-detectors/

Ever wonder how radiologists can look at various types of scans and
see problems that most others fail to see? The main trick is that
after seeing thousands of scans and images, they know what is
considered normal. Any deviation from normal is grounds for
suspicion. However, there are other tricks. In order for a
comparison to be recognized as normal, the scan needs to produced in
exactly the same manner, with the exact same settings, as the
thousands of other scans of the same body area. In the past, the
radiologists were having problems seeing a kidney stone. I suggested
some image enhancement, which was immediately declared heresy by
everyone involved. All the CT scans of the midsection had to take in
the exact same way, with the exact same settings, etc or the analysts
would never see a problem. If you're planning to use AI to detect
voids and such in the CF layers, you'll probably run into the same
problem.

Also, there's no need to use ultrasound. CT scans and X-rays have
been used to inspect bicycle frames:

"Complete CT-scan of a carbon racing bike [2010]"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve_Oa7jl_kQ

"Realtime X-ray robotic inspection of a carbon bike frame"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QREKMI84vJg

I suggest you talk to the people using the same tools for medical or
industrial inspection and ask them what they can do with their
equipment. No need to re-invent the wheel when you can borrow one
from people next door. Good luck.




--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff, that is NOT how you destructive test mechanical components. Simply breaking them tells you little to nothing. You have to have some sort of fatigue limit understanding.

On 15/4/21 8:55 am, Michael Briggs wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 10:26:39 UTC+10, James wrote:
On 14/4/21 9:45 am, Michael Briggs wrote:
This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?

I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.

Thanks!

Sorry, I can't help with a testing jig.

Is this article about you and your quest?

https://road.cc/content/feature/how-...n-frame-280579

Good luck!

--
JS

Thanks James. It's a complex space - but we're getting there


Michael, I wonder whether it would be best to brew your own using
something from this range? https://www.tslot.com.au/

A mechanical engineering mate worked for the Alchemy bicycle frames
business many years ago, and he ended up making his own test jig for
cyclic load testing of certain parts. A jig with an electric motor and
gearbox with a cam to apply a specific deflection, and a counter to keep
track of the cycles.


--
JS

On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 7:46:10 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 15/4/21 8:55 am, Michael Briggs wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 April 2021 at 10:26:39 UTC+10, James wrote:
On 14/4/21 9:45 am, Michael Briggs wrote:
This might be a long shot, but i'm wondering if anyone has any idea where/how to source a load testing jig?

I am partnering with a university here in Australia on a project, and need one of these to form part of our analysis.

Thanks!

Sorry, I can't help with a testing jig.

Is this article about you and your quest?

https://road.cc/content/feature/how-...n-frame-280579

Good luck!

--
JS

Thanks James. It's a complex space - but we're getting there

Michael, I wonder whether it would be best to brew your own using
something from this range? https://www.tslot.com.au/

A mechanical engineering mate worked for the Alchemy bicycle frames
business many years ago, and he ended up making his own test jig for
cyclic load testing of certain parts. A jig with an electric motor and
gearbox with a cam to apply a specific deflection, and a counter to keep
track of the cycles.

That is correct and the T-slot construction would allow you to put in loads in different directions. As I said. each part is load specific and just using a crank or a cam to load things doesn't tell you what the stresses and strains are. This really is a job for a mechanical engineer though you could easily design a test bed to hold a bike frame or whatever it is you intend to test. But application of the loads required knowledge of the material and how to apply the stresses.