Bikes and Riding

On 6/13/2021 1:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

... I will probably move to Klamath Falls, Oregon.

Good idea!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/13/2021 1:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

There is NO PLACE on any of my rides where I don't have to be careful of auto traffic all of the moments of my ride.

BTW, although I've probably said this befo I think my area is
wonderful for riding. There's a bit of suburban hell with multi-lane
roads, shopping plazas etc. that isn't pleasant riding, but there are
ways around a lot of that. And the core city is old enough to have
mostly grid street patterns (as opposed to suburban spaghetti patterns)
making it easy to choose pleasant routes for utility riding.

For recreation, there's a dense network of former farm roads, literally
hundreds of them. To illustrate, one of our club's regular rides starts
and ends at a restaurant/bar, and the leader just picks roads at random
for two hours of riding. He told me he just makes up his mind as he
comes to each intersection. He has many dozens of choices, and has
rarely done exactly the same route.

If we want hills, we head south or east. If we want flatter terrain, we
head north or west. Except on highways the traffic is light once you're
a few miles out, and it's easy to avoid the highways if you like.

I really do feel lucky about all that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/13/2021 1:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/13/2021 12:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/13/2021 10:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm
because they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a
guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero
equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo
rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no
prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels,
he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/


and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride?
What would enter your mind that it was your business to
tell me how to ride?

Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why
do you post here endlessly discussing your rides - how many
miles, how many feet you climbed, whether you felt faster or
slower, whether you had enough sleep, who passed you and who
you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than
rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really
curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and
fitness. Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma
Gandhi



Not really.
An inspiring 3 minute video, applicable to bicycles as
well as motorcycles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XXPGE0klmc

I like the video. I like the concept.

But those guys aren't racing, or trying for ever better ride
data. It looks like they're going out to see the world,
using their old motorcycles, which don't look to be
performance oriented. (That's no more than a 250cc bike at
https://youtu.be/2XXPGE0klmc?t=153 )

Tom isn't emulating those guys.

If those guys did it Tom-style, they each would have bought
one of these:
https://www.thebikemarket.co.uk/top-ten/sports-bikes

In fact, I'm surprised Tom hasn't done that. He used to race
motorcycles.



The video impressed me yesterday.
I was being more tongue-in-cheek than philosophical.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:44:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels, he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/
and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride? What would enter your mind that it was your business to tell me how to ride?

Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why do you post
here endlessly discussing your rides - how many miles, how many feet you
climbed, whether you felt faster or slower, whether you had enough
sleep, who passed you and who you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and fitness.
Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma Gandhi

If you wish to quote Gandhi then do not forget that he also said: ""It
is unwise to be too sure one’s own wisdom. It is healthy to be
reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err."
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:09:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/13/2021 12:39 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 5:45:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels, he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/
and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride? What would enter your mind that it was your business to tell me how to ride?
Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why do you post
here endlessly discussing your rides - how many miles, how many feet you
climbed, whether you felt faster or slower, whether you had enough
sleep, who passed you and who you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and fitness.
Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma Gandhi


--
- Frank Krygowski

If I act my age I would be riding an E bike paying no attention and bother every faster rider half of the time.
No thanks.

I'm way older than you, Lou. I don't ride an e-bike. The friends I ride
with also don't use them. We ride at the pace we ride. And if someone is
slower on a particular day, we wait up.

I do know one guy who bought an e-bike so he could keep up with the fast
riders, but I think that's a little weird. Those fast guys are doing
hours of real training to enjoy some friendly competition and to push
themselves. (Been there, done that. It's fun.)

Showing up with a big pot belly and an electric motor to ride "A" rides
seems somehow wrong.

When you get right down to it a bicycle with a motor on it is a
"motorcycle" and if one is going to ride a motorcycle why be satisfied
with some tiny little weak kneed thing that will just keep up with the
rest. Why not get a real one and lead the pack?

And before someone announces that an e-bike has pedals I might add, so
did the 1905 Harley-Davidson.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/13/2021 7:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:09:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/13/2021 12:39 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 5:45:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels, he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/
and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride? What would enter your mind that it was your business to tell me how to ride?
Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why do you post
here endlessly discussing your rides - how many miles, how many feet you
climbed, whether you felt faster or slower, whether you had enough
sleep, who passed you and who you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and fitness.
Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma Gandhi


--
- Frank Krygowski

If I act my age I would be riding an E bike paying no attention and bother every faster rider half of the time.
No thanks.

I'm way older than you, Lou. I don't ride an e-bike. The friends I ride
with also don't use them. We ride at the pace we ride. And if someone is
slower on a particular day, we wait up.

I do know one guy who bought an e-bike so he could keep up with the fast
riders, but I think that's a little weird. Those fast guys are doing
hours of real training to enjoy some friendly competition and to push
themselves. (Been there, done that. It's fun.)

Showing up with a big pot belly and an electric motor to ride "A" rides
seems somehow wrong.

When you get right down to it a bicycle with a motor on it is a
"motorcycle" and if one is going to ride a motorcycle why be satisfied
with some tiny little weak kneed thing that will just keep up with the
rest. Why not get a real one and lead the pack?

And before someone announces that an e-bike has pedals I might add, so
did the 1905 Harley-Davidson.


As did the popular VeloSolex, Mobylette and similar mopeds
of the 1970s. More power and can carry a passenger, unlike
an e-bicycle.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 19:24:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/13/2021 7:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:09:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/13/2021 12:39 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 5:45:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels, he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/
and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride? What would enter your mind that it was your business to tell me how to ride?
Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why do you post
here endlessly discussing your rides - how many miles, how many feet you
climbed, whether you felt faster or slower, whether you had enough
sleep, who passed you and who you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and fitness.
Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma Gandhi


--
- Frank Krygowski

If I act my age I would be riding an E bike paying no attention and bother every faster rider half of the time.
No thanks.

I'm way older than you, Lou. I don't ride an e-bike. The friends I ride
with also don't use them. We ride at the pace we ride. And if someone is
slower on a particular day, we wait up.

I do know one guy who bought an e-bike so he could keep up with the fast
riders, but I think that's a little weird. Those fast guys are doing
hours of real training to enjoy some friendly competition and to push
themselves. (Been there, done that. It's fun.)

Showing up with a big pot belly and an electric motor to ride "A" rides
seems somehow wrong.

When you get right down to it a bicycle with a motor on it is a
"motorcycle" and if one is going to ride a motorcycle why be satisfied
with some tiny little weak kneed thing that will just keep up with the
rest. Why not get a real one and lead the pack?

And before someone announces that an e-bike has pedals I might add, so
did the 1905 Harley-Davidson.


As did the popular VeloSolex, Mobylette and similar mopeds
of the 1970s. More power and can carry a passenger, unlike
an e-bicycle.

Back in the days of my youth anyone could carry a passenger on a
bicycle. Well, except, of course, the "10 speed English racing bikes"
which had only a single top tube and were considered especially weak.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:09:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/13/2021 12:39 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 5:45:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because
they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels, he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/
and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride? What
would enter your mind that it was your business to tell me how to
ride?
Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why do you post
here endlessly discussing your rides - how many miles, how many feet you
climbed, whether you felt faster or slower, whether you had enough
sleep, who passed you and who you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and fitness.
Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma Gandhi


--
- Frank Krygowski

If I act my age I would be riding an E bike paying no attention and
bother every faster rider half of the time.
No thanks.

I'm way older than you, Lou. I don't ride an e-bike. The friends I ride
with also don't use them. We ride at the pace we ride. And if someone is
slower on a particular day, we wait up.

I do know one guy who bought an e-bike so he could keep up with the fast
riders, but I think that's a little weird. Those fast guys are doing
hours of real training to enjoy some friendly competition and to push
themselves. (Been there, done that. It's fun.)

Showing up with a big pot belly and an electric motor to ride "A" rides
seems somehow wrong.

When you get right down to it a bicycle with a motor on it is a
"motorcycle" and if one is going to ride a motorcycle why be satisfied
with some tiny little weak kneed thing that will just keep up with the
rest. Why not get a real one and lead the pack?

And before someone announces that an e-bike has pedals I might add, so
did the 1905 Harley-Davidson.

The only reason is regulation -- one is allowed to ride while paying
less tax, or at a younger age, or on paths closed to other motor
traffice, or ... Otherwise the natural evolutionary process of a
motor-assisted bicycle is toward stronger motors and heavier vehicles,
until the pedals are either dropped or become ridiculous.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 22:05:20 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:09:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/13/2021 12:39 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 5:45:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because
they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels, he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/
and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride? What
would enter your mind that it was your business to tell me how to
ride?
Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why do you post
here endlessly discussing your rides - how many miles, how many feet you
climbed, whether you felt faster or slower, whether you had enough
sleep, who passed you and who you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and fitness.
Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma Gandhi


--
- Frank Krygowski

If I act my age I would be riding an E bike paying no attention and
bother every faster rider half of the time.
No thanks.

I'm way older than you, Lou. I don't ride an e-bike. The friends I ride
with also don't use them. We ride at the pace we ride. And if someone is
slower on a particular day, we wait up.

I do know one guy who bought an e-bike so he could keep up with the fast
riders, but I think that's a little weird. Those fast guys are doing
hours of real training to enjoy some friendly competition and to push
themselves. (Been there, done that. It's fun.)

Showing up with a big pot belly and an electric motor to ride "A" rides
seems somehow wrong.

When you get right down to it a bicycle with a motor on it is a
"motorcycle" and if one is going to ride a motorcycle why be satisfied
with some tiny little weak kneed thing that will just keep up with the
rest. Why not get a real one and lead the pack?

And before someone announces that an e-bike has pedals I might add, so
did the 1905 Harley-Davidson.

The only reason is regulation -- one is allowed to ride while paying
less tax, or at a younger age, or on paths closed to other motor
traffice, or ... Otherwise the natural evolutionary process of a
motor-assisted bicycle is toward stronger motors and heavier vehicles,
until the pedals are either dropped or become ridiculous.

I don't know about the regulations in the various U.S. states but in
Singapore e-bikes are quite stringently regulated. Maximum speed is
specified 25 kmh, max power 250 watts, must have pedals, must be
pedaled to start, no "throttle", must have both vehicle registration
and a "type approved" certificate. Penalties for failure to comply are
First-time offenders can be subject to a fine of $2,000 and/or
imprisonment of up to three months. It is also an offence to use
non-compliant e-scooters on public paths and first-time offenders may
face a fine $10,000 and/or imprisonment of up to six months.

But of course that is Singapore where it is believed the strict laws
and stringent enforcement is the answer to the "crime problem".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/13/2021 10:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 22:05:20 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:09:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/13/2021 12:39 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 5:45:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 6:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 2:32:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/12/2021 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, I don't like anything bigger than about 38mm because
they're sails, and I'm not riding TTs.
That final phrase is the most important, IME. Why is a guy like Tom, in
his seventh decade, buying ever lighter, ever more aero equipment?

As he describes things, he's doing almost entirely solo rides. If he
finishes his ride three minutes earlier, he gets no prize. And if he is
faster than last year because he bought new aero wheels, he's not in
better shape.

Tome needs to stop trying to be the guy on the right
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallbl...n/photostream/
and accept being the guy on the left.

Frank, when did I ever suggest to you how you should ride? What
would enter your mind that it was your business to tell me how to
ride?
Tom, if you don't want to discuss how you should ride, why do you post
here endlessly discussing your rides - how many miles, how many feet you
climbed, whether you felt faster or slower, whether you had enough
sleep, who passed you and who you passed, etc.?

Do you not notice that nobody else does that more than rarely?

Surely you don't do it because you think we're really curious!

So maybe it's a subconscious desire for good advice.

Here it is again: Act your age. Quit trying to buy youth and fitness.
Slow down, look around, appreciate the scenery.

"There is more to life than increasing its speed." - Mahatma Gandhi


--
- Frank Krygowski

If I act my age I would be riding an E bike paying no attention and
bother every faster rider half of the time.
No thanks.

I'm way older than you, Lou. I don't ride an e-bike. The friends I ride
with also don't use them. We ride at the pace we ride. And if someone is
slower on a particular day, we wait up.

I do know one guy who bought an e-bike so he could keep up with the fast
riders, but I think that's a little weird. Those fast guys are doing
hours of real training to enjoy some friendly competition and to push
themselves. (Been there, done that. It's fun.)

Showing up with a big pot belly and an electric motor to ride "A" rides
seems somehow wrong.

When you get right down to it a bicycle with a motor on it is a
"motorcycle" and if one is going to ride a motorcycle why be satisfied
with some tiny little weak kneed thing that will just keep up with the
rest. Why not get a real one and lead the pack?

And before someone announces that an e-bike has pedals I might add, so
did the 1905 Harley-Davidson.

The only reason is regulation -- one is allowed to ride while paying
less tax, or at a younger age, or on paths closed to other motor
traffice, or ... Otherwise the natural evolutionary process of a
motor-assisted bicycle is toward stronger motors and heavier vehicles,
until the pedals are either dropped or become ridiculous.

I don't know about the regulations in the various U.S. states but in
Singapore e-bikes are quite stringently regulated. Maximum speed is
specified 25 kmh, max power 250 watts, must have pedals, must be
pedaled to start, no "throttle", must have both vehicle registration
and a "type approved" certificate. Penalties for failure to comply are
First-time offenders can be subject to a fine of $2,000 and/or
imprisonment of up to three months. It is also an offence to use
non-compliant e-scooters on public paths and first-time offenders may
face a fine $10,000 and/or imprisonment of up to six months.

But of course that is Singapore where it is believed the strict laws
and stringent enforcement is the answer to the "crime problem".


In the U.S., it varies state by state, but most are pretty similar:
https://www.wired.com/story/guide-to-ebike-classes/

As I understand it, 750 Watts is easy to buy. And I've read that it's
not hard to buy gizmos that will remove all restrictions in software, to
hot rod a legal bike.

I'm sure we can look forward to young guys hitting 40 mph on multi-use
trails. Idiots abound.

--
- Frank Krygowski