Cannondale Synapse or Trek Pilot or Madone?

I am looking for a new ride. Around $3G'S. It is between these three. I
would like to have the Madone , but the LBS guy is telling me to go with the
Pilot for more comfort. I do mostly canal path and ride to work. But I have
always liked performance categoryies no matter what I buy. For example A
snowmobile. I wanted the faster ride than the more comfortable one. ANy
opinions on these bikes? . The Madone and the Pilot are the 5.2 I think.

For $3K you could build up your own ride that would be infinitely more
suited to the task than any of those.

If I were you, I'd find a good metal frame, steel, alu, or even ti,
either off the rack or have something brazed up, then get two sets of
wheels, some fast ones, and some sturdier ones. Carbon fork is fine.

I understand wanting performance, but you're going to find that
tires/whees/geometry is what affects that most, not fancy carbon bits.
A carbon frame can be good for the pro racer needing that very slight
edge, but I wouldn't want to live with one day to day.

You've got a good chunk of change to spend, enough to have a couple
reliable sets of wheels hand built, one light, one sturdy, and enough
left over to get decent componentry.

Don't **** away the bank account on a prestige widget shaped like
"performance". Pay for craftsmanship that actually gives you
performance *and* durability *and* peace of mind.

/rant

;-)

I am looking for a new ride. Around $3G'S. It is between these three. I
would like to have the Madone , but the LBS guy is telling me to go with
the
Pilot for more comfort. I do mostly canal path and ride to work. But I
have
always liked performance categoryies no matter what I buy. For example A
snowmobile. I wanted the faster ride than the more comfortable one. ANy
opinions on these bikes? . The Madone and the Pilot are the 5.2 I think.

Speaking as one who not only sells them but owns a Madone, it is a very
comfortable machine. The reasons for choosing a Pilot would be if you needed
a taller handlebar position and clearance for larger tires and/or fenders.
But the standard Madone still has 4cm of uncut steer column under the stem,
so a relatively-high handlebar position isn't that difficult to accomplish.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

OK, if I had to choose between the two, and there were no alternatives,
I'd choose the Madone--under protest. Reason would be the geometry, the
pilot's a bit too laid back for my tastes. It does have braze ons for
that practical stuff you might want one day tho, and you cn always
slide the saddle forward.

I think you should explore other bikes, as neither the Madone or Pilot
seem to be in the sweet spot you want.

Think braze ons. Even if you set the bike up with uber light fun wheels
at first, there may come a day when you want 28mm tires, skinny fenders
and a rack to make commuting a bit more sensible.

Buy them all, then be sure you tell everyone you have $10K in bikes.

"chris c" wrote in message
...
I am looking for a new ride. Around $3G'S. It is between these three. I
would like to have the Madone , but the LBS guy is telling me to go with
the
Pilot for more comfort. I do mostly canal path and ride to work. But I
have
always liked performance categoryies no matter what I buy. For example A
snowmobile. I wanted the faster ride than the more comfortable one. ANy
opinions on these bikes? . The Madone and the Pilot are the 5.2 I think.

landotter wrote:


snip
A carbon frame can be good for the pro racer needing that very slight
edge, but I wouldn't want to live with one day to day.

Why? I ride a full carbon bike, seldom race, and love it. I've ridden
steel, Ti, and now Carbon. I've loved them all. FWIW I really enjoy
having a light stiff frame and found carbon to be the best choice (for
me) in my price range.

In the end I'd actually argue that in the price range of the OP the
critical variable will be the bike fit more than the frame material.

Please don't pass up the chance to check out the Specialized Roubaix. I
ride a 2005 Roubaix Comp. This is a very high performance bike that is
also extremely comfortable. I own a bike shop that sells both Trek and
Specialized (as well as several other brands), and had my choice of any
bike from these manufacturers and I chose the Roubaix Comp. It's
certainly not a competetive racer (especially for crits), but I don't
race. If you don't need ultra quick steering and want something light,
fast, and comfortable at least check it out.
The Trek Pilot was introduced in direct response to the Roubaix.
Specialized tends to be more innovative than Trek, with Trek being more
reactionary (just my opinion, sorry Trek riders, no flames please).

Perry

I would agree. carbon has three qualities that make it an almost ideal
material for use in bike frames, etc. It's very light, very strong, and
is naturally very good at absorbing vibration. Having said that, I will
add that because of the inherent ridgidity of the material, it's really
only good at absorbing high frequency vibrations. To enable carbon
frames to absorb more low and mid frequency vibrations, Specialized has
added their "Zertz" viscoelastic vibration damping material into it's
frames to make them even more comfortable. This material was originally
developed and used by the tennis racket industry and is used in the
handle of rackets so the vibration of the ball hitting the strings does
not travel up the handle to the player's hand. Specialized uses it in
the fork, seat stays, and seat post. All of these are in the path from
the road to the rider. It works. Check out their web site:

http://specialized.com/bc/techlab_zertz.jsp?a=b

Perry

Absolutely. Proper fit is a requirement, not optional. Beyond fit is
where the design of the the frame, forks, bars, seat, seat post, etc
comes in. Materials play an important role in comfort as well.
Specialized is fairly well known for their "Body Geometry" products
which have been getting very favorable reviews by riders and bicycling
journalists. Specialized has hired renown sports medicine doctor Roger
Minkow to help them design the best saddles, shoes, gloves, etc for fit
and comfort. Also, stiffness is not one-dimentional. Ideally a bicycle
frame should have some vertical compliance for rider comfort without
sacrificing lateral stiffness for efficient power transfer. With Carbon
frames, the layers of carbon are layed out to acheive both goals. The
real workhorse of carbon is the uni-directional fiber sheet which has
strength and stiffness in only one direction. These sheets are layered
in differing widths and angles to provide compliance where desired and
stiffness where required. The frame designer generates what is known as
a "Layout Schedule Diagram" (LSD?) which details what thickness,
length, width, and fiber orientation to use where in the frame and fork
during the manufacturing process. Most people are familiar with the
carbon "weave" pattern commonly used on the outside layer of frames and
forks. This is not the workhorse uni-directional fiber, but instead is
used on the outside layer for two reasons; impact resistance, and
looks. I upgraded the handlebars on my bike to the Specialized S-Works
carbon bar which is lighter, stronger, and has a more ergonomic
flattened area for top-of-the-bar riding position comfort. Many people
are not aware that Carpel Tunnel Syndrom was first diagnosed in bicycle
racers. Preventing harsh vibrations from reaching the riders hands and
butt are not just comfort considerations.

Perry

CobraRGuy wrote:
I would agree. carbon has three qualities that make it an almost ideal
material for use in bike frames, etc. It's very light, very strong, and
is naturally very good at absorbing vibration. Having said that, I will
add that because of the inherent ridgidity of the material, it's really
only good at absorbing high frequency vibrations. To enable carbon
frames to absorb more low and mid frequency vibrations, Specialized has
added their "Zertz" viscoelastic vibration damping material into it's
frames to make them even more comfortable. This material was originally
developed and used by the tennis racket industry and is used in the
handle of rackets so the vibration of the ball hitting the strings does
not travel up the handle to the player's hand. Specialized uses it in
the fork, seat stays, and seat post. All of these are in the path from
the road to the rider. It works. Check out their web site:

http://specialized.com/bc/techlab_zertz.jsp?a=b

Perry

Thanks for the comment!
A couple of points. It would seem that improvements in the fork,seat
stays, and seat post could help dampen vibration regardless of frame
material. So, those improvements - if they are real- should help on any
frame.

But as I say in an earlier post below I'm always a bit perplexed by the
whole comfort discussion. I have about 60,000 miles on steel bikes,
around 40,000 on Ti and now several thousand on a full carbon bike,
They have all been comfortable. Surely there are variances in ride
characteristics but I have logged many miles over time and in single
days on all of them.

So, my own experience leads me to believe that comfort is most closely
achieved by 1) proper bike fit, and 2) by proper conditioning. I think
that the advantages of 1) are obvious. But I also think that overall
fitness (not just cardio) also goes a long way for comfort. So, for
example having god core strength results in being able to support the
body without resting lots of weight on the hands. This results in less
road shock coming up through the hands and thus helps in overall
comfort as well as minimizing all the complaints aobut numb hands,
tired upper body, etc.

So, iI happen to like my current bike for its quick acceleration and
great stability on fast descents. However, the geometry that allows
those characteristics make it turn a bit less quickly than a bike with
a shorter top tupe set up for crits. But I wouldn't describe thoat a
difference in comfort. As I said I've never had a non comfortable bike
and I attribute that to fit and fitness.