When's it enough??

"Jim Flom" wrote in message
news:0Q0ui.81131$tB5.58011@edtnps90...
"Kyle Legate" wrote...

Likewise, I emailed you my retort, but for the benefit of the list:

Never received your emailed retort.

http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/20...s_cause_sc.php

http://tinyurl.com/2936ku
(Pubmed; primary research)

Thanks for this. What I'm not seeing in the abstract is factoring in
frequency of use. The article on the meta-analysis cited _heavy_ pot use
as correlating with psychosis. What I see in the abstract you provide
doesn't account for frequency: "METHOD: We used a case register that
contained 757 cases of first onset schizophrenia, 182 (24%) of whom had
used cannabis in the year prior to first presentation..." Did they use it
once? Once a month? Etc.

Heavy use in most research is considered to be one joint a day.

From the bbc : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6917003.stm "But
Professor Leslie Iverson, from the University of Oxford, said there was
still no conclusive evidence that cannabis use causes psychotic illness.

"Their prediction that 14% of psychotic outcomes in young adults in the
UK may be due to cannabis use is not supported by the fact that the
incidence of schizophrenia has not shown any significant change in the
past 30 years."

In the first place schizophrenia is just a single form of psychosis. Bipolar
disorder is probably more common.

In my experience schizophrenia is pretty much set by your genes but bipolar
is more strongly attached to your behavior and learning. Of course I'm sure
that it is also strongly connected by the way you're wired but I think that
the majority of the population go through manic and depressive episodes all
the time and it is the extremes of these states that are considered
psychosis and not the more mild forms which we would all call "normal
consciencionousness".

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
link.net...
"Kyle Legate" wrote in message
...

Furthermore, you have to consider who is paying for the research:

Woga woga woga.

Shouldn't that be Wada wada wada?

Bill C wrote:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ug07/aug04news

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/13064.0.html

"Kyle Legate" wrote in message
...
Jim Flom wrote:

Never received your emailed retort.

Interesting. I double checked my sent mails, the address was correct.
Maybe I'm filtered as junk (hey hey HEY. no murmuring from the audience).

Science's strength is also its weakness in the hands of dummies. You or
I might want to seize the position we prefer based this or that study
(e.g., global warming). The fact is that I can't isolate the one
article/study and conclude pot causes psychosis as if it is some kind of
natural law, and you can't walk away from the meta-analysis study and
simply dismiss it (well you could but it would be dishonest science
convincing only yourself). What it does do is add to the body of
knowledge as we keep growing in our understanding of cannabis. And one
another. Peace love dove...

Well, I know now that if I graduate to regular heavy use I should keep my
eyes open for signs of psychosis. Maybe marijuana and rbr have something
in common.

I just came across this quote that I had clipped and its context, addressing
the frequency question, that I pulled from the article:
"'... we think the evidence is strong enough that people should be made
aware that if they use cannabis they have an increased risk of having a
psychotic episode. Especially if they use it on a regular basis.'
"-- Stanley Zammit of Cardiff University, one of the researchers who found
that people who had used marijuana at least once were 41 per cent more
likely to experience psychosis, including schizophrenia, hallucinations and
hearing voices, than those who had never used the drug. Frequent pot
smokers -- defined as daily or weekly users of marijuana -- had a 50-200 per
cent greater likelihood."

Notice that the experience of psychosis "includes" but is not limited to
schizophrenia. As the E.R. doc said, many people have the one experience of
delusional thinking, that is, drug-induced psychosis, and back off of the
weed and don't have a recurring experience. These experiences would never
be recorded as schizophrenia.

On Aug 6, 7:20 am, "Jim Flom" wrote:

Grow ops get busted all the time around here, but
you wonder what it is all accomplishing.

It accomplishes welfare for drug cops, judges, lawyers, and jailers.

On Aug 13, 9:06 am, "Jim Flom" wrote:
"Kyle Legate" wrote in message

...





Jim Flom wrote:

Never received your emailed retort.

Interesting. I double checked my sent mails, the address was correct.
Maybe I'm filtered as junk (hey hey HEY. no murmuring from the audience).

Science's strength is also its weakness in the hands of dummies. You or
I might want to seize the position we prefer based this or that study
(e.g., global warming). The fact is that I can't isolate the one
article/study and conclude pot causes psychosis as if it is some kind of
natural law, and you can't walk away from the meta-analysis study and
simply dismiss it (well you could but it would be dishonest science
convincing only yourself). What it does do is add to the body of
knowledge as we keep growing in our understanding of cannabis. And one
another. Peace love dove...

Well, I know now that if I graduate to regular heavy use I should keep my
eyes open for signs of psychosis. Maybe marijuana and rbr have something
in common.

I just came across this quote that I had clipped and its context, addressing
the frequency question, that I pulled from the article:
"'... we think the evidence is strong enough that people should be made
aware that if they use cannabis they have an increased risk of having a
psychotic episode. Especially if they use it on a regular basis.'

Assuming for the moment it is true, yeah, an "episode" -- not
"permanent psychosis" as CV said at least twice.

"-- Stanley Zammit of Cardiff University, one of the researchers who found
that people who had used marijuana at least once were 41 per cent more
likely to experience psychosis, including schizophrenia, hallucinations and
hearing voices, than those who had never used the drug. Frequent pot
smokers -- defined as daily or weekly users of marijuana -- had a 50-200 per
cent greater likelihood."

Notice that the experience of psychosis "includes" but is not limited to
schizophrenia. As the E.R. doc said, many people have the one experience of
delusional thinking, that is, drug-induced psychosis, and back off of the
weed and don't have a recurring experience.

So weed usage is self-regulating in this sense.

I offer free advice: don't smoke weed.

I was advised to stop posting to rbr. Good advice, really -- better
than mine.

These experiences would never
be recorded as schizophrenia.

Jim Flom wrote:
Notice that the experience of psychosis "includes" but is not limited to
schizophrenia. As the E.R. doc said, many people have the one experience
of delusional thinking, that is, drug-induced psychosis, and back off of
the weed and don't have a recurring experience.
These experiences would never be recorded as schizophrenia.

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
I offer free advice: don't smoke weed.
I was advised to stop posting to rbr. Good advice, really -- better
than mine.

Posting to rbr and smoking weed seems to have some similar long term
prognoses (plural ?).

On Aug 14, 12:06 am, "Jim Flom" wrote:
"Kyle Legate" wrote in message

...



Jim Flom wrote:

Never received your emailed retort.

Interesting. I double checked my sent mails, the address was correct.
Maybe I'm filtered as junk (hey hey HEY. no murmuring from the audience).

Science's strength is also its weakness in the hands of dummies. You or
I might want to seize the position we prefer based this or that study
(e.g., global warming). The fact is that I can't isolate the one
article/study and conclude pot causes psychosis as if it is some kind of
natural law, and you can't walk away from the meta-analysis study and
simply dismiss it (well you could but it would be dishonest science
convincing only yourself). What it does do is add to the body of
knowledge as we keep growing in our understanding of cannabis. And one
another. Peace love dove...

Well, I know now that if I graduate to regular heavy use I should keep my
eyes open for signs of psychosis. Maybe marijuana and rbr have something
in common.

I just came across this quote that I had clipped and its context, addressing
the frequency question, that I pulled from the article:
"'... we think the evidence is strong enough that people should be made
aware that if they use cannabis they have an increased risk of having a
psychotic episode. Especially if they use it on a regular basis.'
"-- Stanley Zammit of Cardiff University, one of the researchers who found
that people who had used marijuana at least once were 41 per cent more
likely to experience psychosis, including schizophrenia, hallucinations and
hearing voices, than those who had never used the drug. Frequent pot
smokers -- defined as daily or weekly users of marijuana -- had a 50-200 per
cent greater likelihood."

Notice that the experience of psychosis "includes" but is not limited to
schizophrenia. As the E.R. doc said, many people have the one experience of
delusional thinking, that is, drug-induced psychosis, and back off of the
weed and don't have a recurring experience. These experiences would never
be recorded as schizophrenia.

But what is cause and what is effect? It has already been determined
that many people who use ecstacy are self-medicating for depression
that they don't even realize they have.

-M

"Marian" wrote in message
ups.com...

But what is cause and what is effect? It has already been determined
that many people who use ecstacy are self-medicating for depression
that they don't even realize they have.

Determined by whom?

On Aug 16, 7:14 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"Marian" wrote in message

ups.com...



But what is cause and what is effect? It has already been determined
that many people who use ecstacy are self-medicating for depression
that they don't even realize they have.

Determined by whom?

dunno. But the idea isn't unheard of.

"It is likely that many compulsive ecstasy users are unconsciously
trying to self-medicate their depression. (Of course, Ecstasy is not
an effective daily antidepressant and may actually exacerbate symptoms
of depression.)"
http://www.dancesafe.org/documents/d...depression.php