there are cyclists and "cyclists"

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:17:06 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
wrote:

(Someone argues for sidewalk cycling and then I answer at bottom.
Everybody should be happy with it)

Originally Posted by JRA
According to John Forester, "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty
years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks..."

If you believe that, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell
you.

Forester's patented nutjob conspiracy theories notwithstanding, people
ride on sidewalks for a variety of reasons. One reason I sometimes
ride on the sidewalk is that bike racks are often on sidewalks and the
only curb cut is a long way away. What am I supposed to do, stop a
half a block away, dismount and walk my bike to its parking space? It
ain't going to happen although it is often the only strictly legal way
to get to a bike rack. I'll start walking to bike racks when motorists
are required to stop and push their cars 50 yards to their parking
space.

...
I mean those fast ones wearing lycra can never speak for the mundane
cyclists (we the people) who use the bike for practical reasons. The
elite ones probably fear that bike facilities will take away their
right to ride on the road, which I can relate to, but they must
understand the needs of others.

And to accommodate both, the elite and the mundane, I propose...

"Cyclists shall TAKE THE LANE as law-abiding vehicles, with colorful
clothing, and all other vehicles shall leave the lane 30' before and
after the bicycle."

What do you think?


There are sidewalks and there are "sidewalks". In NYC I hardly ever
ride on the sidewalk but if road conditions are really awful and the
sidewalk is empty, I do.

However I was just in a suburb of Chicago, and while it is very bike
friendly, there are some roads where bikes are not allowed because the
roadway is just too narrow. There people ride on the sidewalk. Which
is fine because I hardly saw anyone walking on the sidewalk, and the
bikes and pedestrians seem to have some curtesy for each other.

As for taking the lane, cars go 40mph on the road that is too narrow
to share with bikes. I can't bike much over 15 for any length of time.
Should I make everyone slow to 15? No, because I'm not a selfish
prick.

In ,
dgk tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us a load of
cross-posted and irrelevant ********.

mode Sir Alan=on

You're fired!

off

On Aug 5, 8:44*am, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:17:06 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana





wrote:
(Someone argues for sidewalk cycling and then I answer at bottom.
Everybody should be happy with it)

Originally Posted by JRA
According to John Forester, "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty
years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks..."

If you believe that, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell
you.

Forester's patented nutjob conspiracy theories notwithstanding, people
ride on sidewalks for a variety of reasons. One reason I sometimes
ride on the sidewalk is that bike racks are often on sidewalks and the
only curb cut is a long way away. What am I supposed to do, stop a
half a block away, dismount and walk my bike to its parking space? It
ain't going to happen although it is often the only strictly legal way
to get to a bike rack. I'll start walking to bike racks when motorists
are required to stop and push their cars 50 yards to their parking
space.

...
I mean those fast ones wearing lycra can never speak for the mundane
cyclists (we the people) who use the bike for practical reasons. The
elite ones probably fear that bike facilities will take away their
right to ride on the road, which I can relate to, but they must
understand the needs of others.

And to accommodate both, the elite and the mundane, I propose...

"Cyclists shall TAKE THE LANE as law-abiding vehicles, with colorful
clothing, and all other vehicles shall leave the lane 30' before and
after the bicycle."

What do you think?

There are sidewalks and there are "sidewalks". In NYC I hardly ever
ride on the sidewalk but if road conditions are really awful and the
sidewalk is empty, I do.

However I was just in a suburb of Chicago, and while it is very bike
friendly, there are some roads where bikes are not allowed because the
roadway is just too narrow. There people ride on the sidewalk. Which
is fine because I hardly saw anyone walking on the sidewalk, and the
bikes and pedestrians seem to have some curtesy for each other.

What I just said in this other forum fits your experience quite
well...

(I answer "I agree...")

Originally Posted by The Human Car
I'll note that there does seem to be some evidence that sidewalk
cycling with the flow of traffic is far less dangerous then against
the flow of traffic. But I cannot accept "general laws against
sidewalk riding are horse hockey" till we at least straighten out the
direction thing. My two cents.

***
I agree with the direction thing. But I also I agree that you EVALUATE
the situation and take whatever MEASURE, DIRECTION OR ROUTE IS
NECESSARY TO SURVIVE.

The rest is BS.

As for taking the lane, cars go 40mph on the road that is too narrow
to share with bikes. I can't bike much over 15 for any length of time.
Should I make everyone slow to 15? No, because I'm not a selfish
prick.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Could this be the solution?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"First Decree of the Revolution: Cyclists shall TAKE THE LANE as law-
abiding vehicles, with colorful clothing, and all other vehicles shall
leave the lane 30' before and after the bicycle."

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:17:06 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
wrote:

(Someone argues for sidewalk cycling and then I answer at bottom.
Everybody should be happy with it)

Originally Posted by JRA
According to John Forester, "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty
years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks..."

If you believe that, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell
you.

Forester's patented nutjob conspiracy theories notwithstanding, people
ride on sidewalks for a variety of reasons. One reason I sometimes
ride on the sidewalk is that bike racks are often on sidewalks and the
only curb cut is a long way away. What am I supposed to do, stop a
half a block away, dismount and walk my bike to its parking space? It
ain't going to happen although it is often the only strictly legal way
to get to a bike rack. I'll start walking to bike racks when motorists
are required to stop and push their cars 50 yards to their parking
space.

...
I mean those fast ones wearing lycra can never speak for the mundane
cyclists (we the people) who use the bike for practical reasons. The
elite ones probably fear that bike facilities will take away their
right to ride on the road, which I can relate to, but they must
understand the needs of others.

And to accommodate both, the elite and the mundane, I propose...

"Cyclists shall TAKE THE LANE as law-abiding vehicles, with colorful
clothing, and all other vehicles shall leave the lane 30' before and
after the bicycle."

What do you think?


There are sidewalks and there are "sidewalks". In NYC I hardly ever
ride on the sidewalk but if road conditions are really awful and the
sidewalk is empty, I do.

However I was just in a suburb of Chicago, and while it is very bike
friendly, there are some roads where bikes are not allowed because the
roadway is just too narrow. There people ride on the sidewalk. Which
is fine because I hardly saw anyone walking on the sidewalk, and the
bikes and pedestrians seem to have some curtesy for each other.

As for taking the lane, cars go 40mph on the road that is too narrow
to share with bikes. I can't bike much over 15 for any length of time.
Should I make everyone slow to 15? No, because I'm not a selfish
prick.

One of my routes puts me on the sidewalk the wrong way for a
few hundred feet. The alternative is a left onto a fairly busy road
and then another left at a five way intersection.
I always opt for the way that is safer for me.

As a driver the direction of the cyclist is significant. We have a lot
of Central American immigrants here, lots of them use bikes as
primary transport and they like the sidewalk. Since they move faster
than pedestrians they can surprise you on the left when you are
making a right turn. I saw one knocked down, thankfully unhurt,
doing exactly that. If you are going the wrong way drivers making
a rights are less likely to see you, especially if they have to wait for a
break in the traffic.

JP

On Aug 5, 2:12*pm, "JP" wrote:
"dgk" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:17:06 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
wrote:

(Someone argues for sidewalk cycling and then I answer at bottom.
Everybody should be happy with it)

Originally Posted by JRA
According to John Forester, "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty
years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks..."

If you believe that, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell
you.

Forester's patented nutjob conspiracy theories notwithstanding, people
ride on sidewalks for a variety of reasons. One reason I sometimes
ride on the sidewalk is that bike racks are often on sidewalks and the
only curb cut is a long way away. What am I supposed to do, stop a
half a block away, dismount and walk my bike to its parking space? It
ain't going to happen although it is often the only strictly legal way
to get to a bike rack. I'll start walking to bike racks when motorists
are required to stop and push their cars 50 yards to their parking
space.

...
I mean those fast ones wearing lycra can never speak for the mundane
cyclists (we the people) who use the bike for practical reasons. The
elite ones probably fear that bike facilities will take away their
right to ride on the road, which I can relate to, but they must
understand the needs of others.

And to accommodate both, the elite and the mundane, I propose...

"Cyclists shall TAKE THE LANE as law-abiding vehicles, with colorful
clothing, and all other vehicles shall leave the lane 30' before and
after the bicycle."

What do you think?

There are sidewalks and there are "sidewalks". In NYC I hardly ever
ride on the sidewalk but if road conditions are really awful and the
sidewalk is empty, I do.

However I was just in a suburb of Chicago, and while it is very bike
friendly, there are some roads where bikes are not allowed because the
roadway is just too narrow. There people ride on the sidewalk. Which
is fine because I hardly saw anyone walking on the sidewalk, and the
bikes and pedestrians seem to have some curtesy for each other.

As for taking the lane, cars go 40mph on the road that is too narrow
to share with bikes. I can't bike much over 15 for any length of time.
Should I make everyone slow to 15? No, because I'm not a selfish
prick.

One of my routes puts me on the sidewalk the wrong way for a
few hundred feet. *The alternative is a left onto a fairly busy road
and then another left at a five way intersection.
*I always opt for the way that is safer for me.

As a driver the direction of the cyclist is significant. *We have a lot
of Central American immigrants here, lots of them use bikes as
primary transport and they like the sidewalk. *Since they move faster
than pedestrians they can surprise you on the left when you are
making a right turn. *I saw one knocked down, thankfully unhurt,
doing exactly that. * If you are going the wrong way drivers making
a rights are less likely to see you, especially if they have to wait for a
break in the traffic.

JP- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, and if they see you, they simply ignore you!

Sometimes I get mad because I'm bullied, sometimes because I'm
ignored. At driveways, lights and other conflict points they act like
I don't exist.

But I know damn well, I do!

Do I?