climbs not over a pass Switzerland

I tried some more climbs "not over anything" in early September, and
was very well rewarded. I looked on www.quaeldich.de for climbs around
the Berner Oberland and sorted them by prettiness, did some rated 5-
star or 4-star.

quick list with my rating (east to west):
* Oberaar Panoramastrasse (by Grimselpass) (A)
* Gental + Engstlenalp (near Innertkirchen) (A)
* Axalp + Chruttmettli (near Brienz) (B)
* Kleine Scheidegg direct from Grindelwald (C)
* Männlichen from Grindelwald w hike to Kleine Scheidegg (A)
* Mürren + Winteregg from Lauterbrunnen (B+)
* Kiental + Griesalp from Reichenbach im Kandertal (A)
see on map:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...,0.892639&z=10

my ratings: A = pretty special, see if it might be special in your
preferred way; B = good; C = nothing special, or special but with
negatives.

I'm eager for more suggestions for interesting + pretty climbs to try.

More below.
Photo links + lots more details he
http://www.roberts-1.com/b/v/e/09a

Ken
___________________________________________
Oberaar Panoramastrasse (by Grimsel pass)

Great views of peaks and lakes in three directions, especially west
into the glaciers and high peaks of the Berner Oberland. Narrow
asphalt road cut into steep rock. Possibililty of riding to (and
across?) the dam of a remote glacial lake.

Key point is not that so many people would ride this (short) road on
its own. But it naturally combines with climbing or descending the
spectacular roads of the upper sections of both sides of the Grimsel
pass, and the addition of the Panoramastrasse raises my interesting
+prettiness ratings for the Grimsel pass climbs from "good" to
"outstanding".

photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/American...anoramastrasse
________________________________________________
Engstlenalp + Gental (near Innertkirchen)

Like a wonderful mountain bike ride thru meadows near tree-line with a
stream and cows (sometimes on the road) and waterfalls and some kinda
dramatic rock peaks -- except that it’s on smooth asphalt, and there’s
food served at the end (and perhaps along the way). A little further
ride or walk on gravel road to a lake. Some views toward glaciers and
distant snow peaks on the descent.

photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/American...stlenalpGental
__________________________________________________ ___
Axalp + Chruttmettli (near Brienz)

Views of the biggest bluest-green mountain lake I know in Switzerland,
from close low down and from high up. Sustained climbing on a low-
traffic asphalt road.

The problem for me is the long slog thru the forest between the low
views and the high views. So I cannot give it 5 stars like on www.quaeldich..de
-- my suspicion is that their rater rode it in late spring / early
summer while there was still snow on the peaks on the other side of
the lake Brienz.
___________________________________
Kleine Scheidegg direct from Grindelwald Grund

Great high-mountain views in a famous place. The big problem is that
the upper part of the climb has a long section on dirt with larger
stones in it. Painfully bumpy for me riding without a rear suspension.

I think there's a better alternative nearby ...
___________________________________
Männlichen from Grindelwald, optional hike to Kleine Scheidegg

Great views of high peaks and glaciers, and to far horizons in many
directions, plus a steep look from top down into Lauterbrunner valley.
Optional hike toward the Eiger north face with continuing views.

I did not pedal up this climb -- rode up the lift instead -- so I'm
relying on www.quaeldich.de to attest that the experience of the paved
path itself is in keeping with the other aspects. The asphalt path
looked like it had less distance (less than the Kleine Scheidegg
direct way) of slogging thru forest between the lower pasture-grazing
land and the higher above-tree-line open meadows -- then it goes above
tree-line a long ways which allows time to enjoy the high mountain
views. So I’d like to try pedaling up it.

I did do the hike, and it's a rather spectacular (and not difficult)
trail -- aand I suspect its popularity with walkers is a key reason
that bicycling is not permitted on it. So I'm happy to agree with the
Quaeldich.de rating of 5 stars.

photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/American...leineScheidegg
________________________________________________
Mürren + Winteregg from Lauterbrunnen

Big views of high peaks and glaciers, some views across the
Lauterbrunnen valley, and Gimmelwald is a quiet pretty village. If
you're looking for an adventure that includes carrying your bike and a
variety of different road surfaces and steepness, this loop could be a
good choice.

Problems for me: climb up from Lauterbrunnen has a long slog thru
forest; descent from Gimmelwald has some unridable sections.
____________________________________________
Griesalp from Kiental + Reichenbach im Kandertal
Steep switchbacks on both sides of waterfalls, coming after a steep-
walled cirque with braided streams, coming after a climb up a pleasant
valley thru villages toward a dramatic rock peak.

I'd give it 3 stars just for the pleasant climb thru the villages, up
to 4 stars for the cirque, then the unique waterfall climb clearly
puts it into 5 stars (in agreement with www.quaeldich.de).

photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/American...ntalKandertal#
_____________________________________________

Something I find interesting about this is that the climbs I mentioned
included four which received a 5-star rating for prettiness (schön)
from www.quaeldich.com - (and four which after I checked them I
confirmed as deserving a top "A" rating).

But none of those 5-star climbs has ever been mentioned before on
rec.bicycles.rides. Even though they're in the Berner Oberland region
which is famous for pretty views and spectacular roads. (one of the 4-
star climbs was _mentioned_ once on r.b.r, but with no indication that
it was worth a return visit -- also one of the 5-star climbs, but that
was initiated by me).

which suggests:
(a) experienced European road bicyclists tend to be _looking_ for a
different kind of pretty riding than English-speaking visitors.
(b) experienced European road bicyclists have _found_ some pretty
riding which most English-speaking visitors have not.

Most striking to me is that I didn't find the Oberaar Panoramastrasse
ever mentioned before on rec.bicycles.rides - (? or any English-
language trip report on the web ?) - even though it's a
straightforward + fairly easy side-trip from Grimsel pass -- a famous
pass which many participants on r.b.r have ridden over.
For me, any time I'm riding up to Grimselpass in decent weather, I'm
going to allocate an extra hour at least to enjoy that road.

Another question:
Why is it that paved roads which do _not_ go over a pass tend to be
prettier and have more interesting riding than roads which do go over
a pass?

Ken

In article
,
Ken Roberts wrote:

Something I find interesting about this is that the climbs I mentioned
included four which received a 5-star rating for prettiness (schön)
from www.quaeldich.com - (and four which after I checked them I
confirmed as deserving a top "A" rating).

But none of those 5-star climbs has ever been mentioned before on
rec.bicycles.rides. Even though they're in the Berner Oberland region
which is famous for pretty views and spectacular roads. (one of the 4-
star climbs was _mentioned_ once on r.b.r, but with no indication that
it was worth a return visit -- also one of the 5-star climbs, but that
was initiated by me).

which suggests:
(a) experienced European road bicyclists tend to be _looking_ for a
different kind of pretty riding than English-speaking visitors.
(b) experienced European road bicyclists have _found_ some pretty
riding which most English-speaking visitors have not.

Most striking to me is that I didn't find the Oberaar Panoramastrasse
ever mentioned before on rec.bicycles.rides - (? or any English-
language trip report on the web ?) - even though it's a
straightforward + fairly easy side-trip from Grimsel pass -- a famous
pass which many participants on r.b.r have ridden over.
For me, any time I'm riding up to Grimselpass in decent weather, I'm
going to allocate an extra hour at least to enjoy that road.

Another question:
Why is it that paved roads which do _not_ go over a pass tend to be
prettier and have more interesting riding than roads which do go over
a pass?

Ken


About attractive rides not going over a pass: I think the reason is that
there is generally much less traffic, especially motorcycle traffic. I
find that I am usually somehow in a hurry and tense when riding on roads
with substantial traffic, and then slow down to enjoy the scenery on the
less-traveled roads. Some years ago I switched to a hardtail mountain
bike, and now do much of my riding on small dirt roads in the mountains.
Often also some "bike and hike" on a hiking trail--pushing the bike for
awhile and maybe occasionally picking it up at particularly narrow
spots. For example, this year I also visited Gental and Engstlenalp as
you mention, but then walked/pushed bike on the hiking trail over to
Baumgartenalp before riding back down the valley. Another time up the
Schilstal and then on foot from Naserina to Alp Fursch before riding
down to Flumserberg. Or up the Murgtal to the upper Murgsee, then walk
up to the Widersteiner Furggel and down into the Mülibachtal.

Two more A++ suggestions:
1) From Ulrichen in Obergoms up towards the Nufenen pass, then turn off
for bike and hike to the Griespass and down into Val Antigorio.

2) for two days: From Samedan to the Berninapass, over to Alp Grüm
(spectacular views), down to Poschiavo and Tirano, and over to Grosio.
On the next day up through Val Grosina (unpaved and steep road after
Eita--I had to walk from there up to the pass) and over the Passo di
Verva. Spend the night in Arnoga (surprisingly good hotel) in Val Viola.
Then on the small "high road"/Höhenweg to Valle di Fraele with Lago di
Cancano and Lago di San Giacomo, and from there over the Passo di Val
Appisella to Livigno. From there you can quickly return to Switzerland
via the tunnel to the Ofenpass road, or go over Pass Chaschauna for
something more spectacular, among other possibilities

Ned Mantei wrote:
1) From Ulrichen in Obergoms up towards the Nufenen pass, then turn off
for bike and hike to the Griespass and down into Val Antigorio.

This is another way into Val Antigorio which I hadn't taken seriously
for bicycling (though a couple of years ago I planned to do it for a
ski tour). I think I remember seeing the road when climbing to
Nufenenpass. Another idea here is to make a loop with Griespass and
Passo San Giacomo - perhaps I'd try in the clockwise direction, hike
up to P S Giacomo, so I could enjoy descending the road on its south
side.
(Interesting that what quealdich.de likes in that area is to the east
of there, riding up Val Maggia:
http://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/lago-del-naret/

2) for two days: From Samedan to the Berninapass, over to Alp Grüm
(spectacular views), down to Poschiavo and Tirano, and over to Grosio.
On the next day up through Val Grosina (unpaved and steep road after
Eita--I had to walk from there up to the pass) and over the Passo di
Verva. Spend the night in Arnoga (surprisingly good hotel) in Val Viola.
Then on the small "high road"/Höhenweg to Valle di Fraele with Lago di
Cancano and Lago di San Giacomo, and from there over the Passo di Val
Appisella to Livigno. From there you can quickly return to Switzerland
via the tunnel to the Ofenpass road, or go over Pass Chaschauna for
something more spectacular, among other possibilities

Now that's a pretty wild tour.
First thing that strikes me is that I did not know it was possible to
ride a bicycle to Alp Grüm. I alway assumed I would go there on skis
and connect with the train. It also addresses one of my main
objections to bicycling the south side of Berninapass: that the train
route is obviously more spectacular than the main road. so why would I
want to ride on the road?

Then I also had thought of riding to the two lakes Cancano + San
Giacomo, but not of combining it with Passo Alpisella.

And I'm still kind of amazed that they would allow me to ride my bike
thru that tunnel north from Livigno. It opens up the possibility of a
different loop trip: Zernez Ofenpass Val Mustair P Umbrail
side trip to P Stelvio Bormio Lagi Cancano + San Giacomo P
Alpisella Lago di Gallo tunnel Zernez.

Thanks also for the other "bike + hike" ideas closer to Zurich.
And especially for pointing out a year or two ago the idea of hiking
between Maennlichen and Kleine Scheidegg: which I definitely enjoyed.

Ken

You might try looking up reports on the Trento Bike Pages:
*http://www.trentobike.org/byauthor/JobstBrandt.html
*http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/.../Tour_of_the_A....

I just did.
What was I supposed to find?
I didn't find the slightest mention of Oberaar Panoramastrasse,
Griesalp, Axalp, Maennlichen.
I did find mentions of Kleine Scheidegg and Muerren, but nothing about
riding a _bicycle_ to either place.
I did find a mention of bicycling near Engstlenalp, but no hint that
it was of any special interest or worth returning to, and no evidence
that the person who wrote the report ever returned.

I did not notice any section on those pages (or that website) devoted
to "climbs not over a pass". Nor any section focused on "pretty
climbs" -- or even "interesting climbs".

But I found lots of things like that on www.quaeldich.de.
How about you do some looking up reports there.

Ken