New Tires

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 2:08:46 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 4:18:37 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 2:25:52 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 11:27:35 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 3:05:19 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
I have been using Conti GP 5000s regular tube required. I get huge
mileage out of them say 5000-6000. I put a new set on today because they
seem to be squared pretty good but I could still get a glimpse of the
wear indicators. They were wore down to the end but not totally
disappeared. I think I could have gotten more miles but the back tire
had a small sidewall type mark but nothing drastic or popping out.

Well I road the new ones and I sure could tell my cornering and handling
was better. Did I imagine this or should I have gotten more miles out of
the other tires. I guess my feeling it they are what meet the road don't
be cheap with it?
Deacon mark
I couldn't understand when you said that you were getting 5,000 miles on
those tires before since I could barely make 2,500, Using Michelin Pro4
of Vittoria Corsa G+ I get much better wear. I will say that the GP5000's
do corner a lot better and if you want very good wear and cornering the
Continental 4 Seasons are very good but very expensive. The Pro4's corner
very nearly as well as the GP5000.

Used to get, about 2k on various road tires, with the gravel tires get fair
bit less, maybe 1.5k.

Probably as gravel is abrasive plus the tires tend to be softer.
But yes, new GP5000's do corner remarkably better than worn one's that
have had the rubber age hardened. Though it used to be that you age
hardened some tires to get them to corner well. (GP4000's?) As soon as
the 5000's start getting flats it is time to replace them.

I do a lot of climbing on the tires and descending they get a combination
of high speed on lousy California pavement so perhaps this is why I would
wear them out so rapidly.

And like Joerg points out, do not use any tires with possible sidewall
blowout problems. That can lead to a tire being thrown off of the rim.
The reason that tubular tires were so popular in racing was because with
the tire glued onto the rim you couldn't throw the tire off.

If you blow a side wall on any tire, even a tubular that’s going to be game
over, a puncture no you can still keep on rolling, sidewall rip? Not so
sure I’d be confident you could.

My point wasn't that you could keep rolling but that you wouldn't lose
control and go down. I've had both clincher and tubeless come off the
rim. Really screws the rim up and luckily this never happened when I
was using carbon rims.

Glued on or not a tire with a blown out side wall is probably asking to jam
in the fork, I agree the general reasoning which is that tubs can be run
flat, though as clinchers are apparently closed and overtaken in terms of
rolling. The argument not to use tubless + sealant is looking weaker.

I ran tubies for many years when that was the only good tires you could
get and I never once saw a slashed sidewall. I had one of those plastic
stacking boxes full of tubies and a couple of years ago I put an add in
Craigslist free for the taking and a dozen people contacted me within
hours. And these weren't even racing tires - they were training tires.

I’ve slashed the odd MTB tires and quite a few Gravel tires, on road no.
Though being in various clubs etc, I’m aware it does happen.

The places I've done most of my gravel riding have not been in places I
would not watch the trail for sharp objects so I wouldn't call my
off-road experience pertinent to tire slashes. I was speaking about road
tires when I said that I never had a tire sidewall slashed. Now I
absolutely have had the tread location slashed to the point the tire
couldn't be repaired. This is why I stopped using tubeless.

Most of the folks who have tire slashes etc, are roadies so generally
blowouts, some due to potholes and the like others maybe manufacturing
faults maybe mis use ie brake rub and such.

Road tires are fairly fragile so not difficult to do so, very few folks I
know have slashed MTB tires most folks are fundamentally over biked. And
even XC bikes are fairly capable on the technical stuff now.

Having a slash on the road surface of the tire is completely different
from having a slash on the sidewall which is the trouble that Joerg has.
His route to work goes over a very rough rocky path if I understand him correctly.

Potholes and indeed brake rub, will impact the sidewall, other issue around
here is you get the flint chips that are quite capable of slashing open a
sidewall.

Rocky stuff isn’t in of its self a problem but the type for example the
sharp volcanic stuff you get in Tenerife will just slice though unprotected
tires, particularly if your a bit heavy/wooden on the bike as roadies tend
to be.

Roger Merriman

On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 3:17:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 2:08:46 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 4:18:37 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 2:25:52 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 11:27:35 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 3:05:19 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
I have been using Conti GP 5000s regular tube required. I get huge
mileage out of them say 5000-6000. I put a new set on today because they
seem to be squared pretty good but I could still get a glimpse of the
wear indicators. They were wore down to the end but not totally
disappeared. I think I could have gotten more miles but the back tire
had a small sidewall type mark but nothing drastic or popping out.

Well I road the new ones and I sure could tell my cornering and handling
was better. Did I imagine this or should I have gotten more miles out of
the other tires. I guess my feeling it they are what meet the road don't
be cheap with it?
Deacon mark
I couldn't understand when you said that you were getting 5,000 miles on
those tires before since I could barely make 2,500, Using Michelin Pro4
of Vittoria Corsa G+ I get much better wear. I will say that the GP5000's
do corner a lot better and if you want very good wear and cornering the
Continental 4 Seasons are very good but very expensive. The Pro4's corner
very nearly as well as the GP5000.

Used to get, about 2k on various road tires, with the gravel tires get fair
bit less, maybe 1.5k.

Probably as gravel is abrasive plus the tires tend to be softer.
But yes, new GP5000's do corner remarkably better than worn one's that
have had the rubber age hardened. Though it used to be that you age
hardened some tires to get them to corner well. (GP4000's?) As soon as
the 5000's start getting flats it is time to replace them.

I do a lot of climbing on the tires and descending they get a combination
of high speed on lousy California pavement so perhaps this is why I would
wear them out so rapidly.

And like Joerg points out, do not use any tires with possible sidewall
blowout problems. That can lead to a tire being thrown off of the rim.
The reason that tubular tires were so popular in racing was because with
the tire glued onto the rim you couldn't throw the tire off.

If you blow a side wall on any tire, even a tubular that’s going to be game
over, a puncture no you can still keep on rolling, sidewall rip? Not so
sure I’d be confident you could.

My point wasn't that you could keep rolling but that you wouldn't lose
control and go down. I've had both clincher and tubeless come off the
rim. Really screws the rim up and luckily this never happened when I
was using carbon rims.

Glued on or not a tire with a blown out side wall is probably asking to jam
in the fork, I agree the general reasoning which is that tubs can be run
flat, though as clinchers are apparently closed and overtaken in terms of
rolling. The argument not to use tubless + sealant is looking weaker.

I ran tubies for many years when that was the only good tires you could
get and I never once saw a slashed sidewall. I had one of those plastic
stacking boxes full of tubies and a couple of years ago I put an add in
Craigslist free for the taking and a dozen people contacted me within
hours. And these weren't even racing tires - they were training tires.

I’ve slashed the odd MTB tires and quite a few Gravel tires, on road no.
Though being in various clubs etc, I’m aware it does happen.

The places I've done most of my gravel riding have not been in places I
would not watch the trail for sharp objects so I wouldn't call my
off-road experience pertinent to tire slashes. I was speaking about road
tires when I said that I never had a tire sidewall slashed. Now I
absolutely have had the tread location slashed to the point the tire
couldn't be repaired. This is why I stopped using tubeless.

Most of the folks who have tire slashes etc, are roadies so generally
blowouts, some due to potholes and the like others maybe manufacturing
faults maybe mis use ie brake rub and such.

Road tires are fairly fragile so not difficult to do so, very few folks I
know have slashed MTB tires most folks are fundamentally over biked. And
even XC bikes are fairly capable on the technical stuff now.

Having a slash on the road surface of the tire is completely different
from having a slash on the sidewall which is the trouble that Joerg has..
His route to work goes over a very rough rocky path if I understand him correctly.

Potholes and indeed brake rub, will impact the sidewall, other issue around
here is you get the flint chips that are quite capable of slashing open a
sidewall.

Rocky stuff isn’t in of its self a problem but the type for example the
sharp volcanic stuff you get in Tenerife will just slice though unprotected
tires, particularly if your a bit heavy/wooden on the bike as roadies tend
to be.

Roger, this entire string started with Mark and Lou saying that they made good mileage with the Continental GP5000's. That surprised me because I used them at first because they have terrific traction but they wear out on me in very short time and low mileage. And as soon as the tread wears down to being a little thin they get flats for the least reason. This isn't some guess or rumor - I have experienced it on 4 sets of GP5000's.

I mentioned that these sorts of tires were no good for Joerg because he does partial gravel rides on his commute to work and gets sidewall flats on most road tires. Certainly Joerg is heavier than me and uses tires with sidewall protection all the way around the tire and not just on the traction surface like the Continental Gatorskin. I would use the Continental 4 Seasons if I could afford them since they seem to be a combination of every good feature of the entire Continental line, but at $88 a copy the last set I bought, I won't be buying them again.

When I paid about the same for the Michelin tires on my car as 4 Seasons on my bike, it begins to be a little bit silly.

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 3:17:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 2:08:46 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 4:18:37 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 2:25:52 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 11:27:35 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 3:05:19 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
I have been using Conti GP 5000s regular tube required. I get huge
mileage out of them say 5000-6000. I put a new set on today because they
seem to be squared pretty good but I could still get a glimpse of the
wear indicators. They were wore down to the end but not totally
disappeared. I think I could have gotten more miles but the back tire
had a small sidewall type mark but nothing drastic or popping out.

Well I road the new ones and I sure could tell my cornering and handling
was better. Did I imagine this or should I have gotten more miles out of
the other tires. I guess my feeling it they are what meet the road don't
be cheap with it?
Deacon mark
I couldn't understand when you said that you were getting 5,000 miles on
those tires before since I could barely make 2,500, Using Michelin Pro4
of Vittoria Corsa G+ I get much better wear. I will say that the GP5000's
do corner a lot better and if you want very good wear and cornering the
Continental 4 Seasons are very good but very expensive. The Pro4's corner
very nearly as well as the GP5000.

Used to get, about 2k on various road tires, with the gravel tires get fair
bit less, maybe 1.5k.

Probably as gravel is abrasive plus the tires tend to be softer.
But yes, new GP5000's do corner remarkably better than worn one's that
have had the rubber age hardened. Though it used to be that you age
hardened some tires to get them to corner well. (GP4000's?) As soon as
the 5000's start getting flats it is time to replace them.

I do a lot of climbing on the tires and descending they get a combination
of high speed on lousy California pavement so perhaps this is why I would
wear them out so rapidly.

And like Joerg points out, do not use any tires with possible sidewall
blowout problems. That can lead to a tire being thrown off of the rim.
The reason that tubular tires were so popular in racing was because with
the tire glued onto the rim you couldn't throw the tire off.

If you blow a side wall on any tire, even a tubular that’s going to be game
over, a puncture no you can still keep on rolling, sidewall rip? Not so
sure I’d be confident you could.

My point wasn't that you could keep rolling but that you wouldn't lose
control and go down. I've had both clincher and tubeless come off the
rim. Really screws the rim up and luckily this never happened when I
was using carbon rims.

Glued on or not a tire with a blown out side wall is probably asking to jam
in the fork, I agree the general reasoning which is that tubs can be run
flat, though as clinchers are apparently closed and overtaken in terms of
rolling. The argument not to use tubless + sealant is looking weaker.

I ran tubies for many years when that was the only good tires you could
get and I never once saw a slashed sidewall. I had one of those plastic
stacking boxes full of tubies and a couple of years ago I put an add in
Craigslist free for the taking and a dozen people contacted me within
hours. And these weren't even racing tires - they were training tires.

I’ve slashed the odd MTB tires and quite a few Gravel tires, on road no.
Though being in various clubs etc, I’m aware it does happen.

The places I've done most of my gravel riding have not been in places I
would not watch the trail for sharp objects so I wouldn't call my
off-road experience pertinent to tire slashes. I was speaking about road
tires when I said that I never had a tire sidewall slashed. Now I
absolutely have had the tread location slashed to the point the tire
couldn't be repaired. This is why I stopped using tubeless.

Most of the folks who have tire slashes etc, are roadies so generally
blowouts, some due to potholes and the like others maybe manufacturing
faults maybe mis use ie brake rub and such.

Road tires are fairly fragile so not difficult to do so, very few folks I
know have slashed MTB tires most folks are fundamentally over biked. And
even XC bikes are fairly capable on the technical stuff now.

Having a slash on the road surface of the tire is completely different
from having a slash on the sidewall which is the trouble that Joerg has.
His route to work goes over a very rough rocky path if I understand him correctly.

Potholes and indeed brake rub, will impact the sidewall, other issue around
here is you get the flint chips that are quite capable of slashing open a
sidewall.

Rocky stuff isn’t in of its self a problem but the type for example the
sharp volcanic stuff you get in Tenerife will just slice though unprotected
tires, particularly if your a bit heavy/wooden on the bike as roadies tend
to be.

Roger, this entire string started with Mark and Lou saying that they made
good mileage with the Continental GP5000's. That surprised me because I
used them at first because they have terrific traction but they wear out
on me in very short time and low mileage. And as soon as the tread wears
down to being a little thin they get flats for the least reason. This
isn't some guess or rumor - I have experienced it on 4 sets of GP5000's.

That happens with most tires I’ve found, I replaced some Big Apples this
winter for that reason. No idea how folks can clock up that sort of mileage
on road tires I never found they lasted more than 2k.

I mentioned that these sorts of tires were no good for Joerg because he
does partial gravel rides on his commute to work and gets sidewall flats
on most road tires. Certainly Joerg is heavier than me and uses tires
with sidewall protection all the way around the tire and not just on the
traction surface like the Continental Gatorskin. I would use the
Continental 4 Seasons if I could afford them since they seem to be a
combination of every good feature of the entire Continental line, but at
$88 a copy the last set I bought, I won't be buying them again.

Bit redundant since they are all out of stock! I did like the 4 Seasons but
not sure enough that I’d pay the premium over a cheaper training tire,
though I’d not touch Gatorskins unless you live somewhere very dry as
living in a wet climate they are simply lacking in traction.

When I paid about the same for the Michelin tires on my car as 4 Seasons
on my bike, it begins to be a little bit silly.

I pay more for my MTB tires and they don’t last huge mileages but also
don’t do huge mileages.

For that bike which is my Sunday best for “big days� out it’s fine as I
want the performance, and will take the cost/wear hit.

Roger Merriman.

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:35:19 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 3:17:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 2:08:46 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 4:18:37 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 2:25:52 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 11:27:35 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 3:05:19 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
I have been using Conti GP 5000s regular tube required. I get huge
mileage out of them say 5000-6000. I put a new set on today because they
seem to be squared pretty good but I could still get a glimpse of the
wear indicators. They were wore down to the end but not totally
disappeared. I think I could have gotten more miles but the back tire
had a small sidewall type mark but nothing drastic or popping out.

Well I road the new ones and I sure could tell my cornering and handling
was better. Did I imagine this or should I have gotten more miles out of
the other tires. I guess my feeling it they are what meet the road don't
be cheap with it?
Deacon mark
I couldn't understand when you said that you were getting 5,000 miles on
those tires before since I could barely make 2,500, Using Michelin Pro4
of Vittoria Corsa G+ I get much better wear. I will say that the GP5000's
do corner a lot better and if you want very good wear and cornering the
Continental 4 Seasons are very good but very expensive. The Pro4's corner
very nearly as well as the GP5000.

Used to get, about 2k on various road tires, with the gravel tires get fair
bit less, maybe 1.5k.

Probably as gravel is abrasive plus the tires tend to be softer.
But yes, new GP5000's do corner remarkably better than worn one's that
have had the rubber age hardened. Though it used to be that you age
hardened some tires to get them to corner well. (GP4000's?) As soon as
the 5000's start getting flats it is time to replace them.

I do a lot of climbing on the tires and descending they get a combination
of high speed on lousy California pavement so perhaps this is why I would
wear them out so rapidly.

And like Joerg points out, do not use any tires with possible sidewall
blowout problems. That can lead to a tire being thrown off of the rim.
The reason that tubular tires were so popular in racing was because with
the tire glued onto the rim you couldn't throw the tire off.

If you blow a side wall on any tire, even a tubular that’s going to be game
over, a puncture no you can still keep on rolling, sidewall rip? Not so
sure I’d be confident you could.

My point wasn't that you could keep rolling but that you wouldn't lose
control and go down. I've had both clincher and tubeless come off the
rim. Really screws the rim up and luckily this never happened when I
was using carbon rims.

Glued on or not a tire with a blown out side wall is probably asking to jam
in the fork, I agree the general reasoning which is that tubs can be run
flat, though as clinchers are apparently closed and overtaken in terms of
rolling. The argument not to use tubless + sealant is looking weaker.

I ran tubies for many years when that was the only good tires you could
get and I never once saw a slashed sidewall. I had one of those plastic
stacking boxes full of tubies and a couple of years ago I put an add in
Craigslist free for the taking and a dozen people contacted me within
hours. And these weren't even racing tires - they were training tires.

I’ve slashed the odd MTB tires and quite a few Gravel tires, on road no.
Though being in various clubs etc, I’m aware it does happen.

The places I've done most of my gravel riding have not been in places I
would not watch the trail for sharp objects so I wouldn't call my
off-road experience pertinent to tire slashes. I was speaking about road
tires when I said that I never had a tire sidewall slashed. Now I
absolutely have had the tread location slashed to the point the tire
couldn't be repaired. This is why I stopped using tubeless.

Most of the folks who have tire slashes etc, are roadies so generally
blowouts, some due to potholes and the like others maybe manufacturing
faults maybe mis use ie brake rub and such.

Road tires are fairly fragile so not difficult to do so, very few folks I
know have slashed MTB tires most folks are fundamentally over biked. And
even XC bikes are fairly capable on the technical stuff now.

Having a slash on the road surface of the tire is completely different
from having a slash on the sidewall which is the trouble that Joerg has.
His route to work goes over a very rough rocky path if I understand him correctly.

Potholes and indeed brake rub, will impact the sidewall, other issue around
here is you get the flint chips that are quite capable of slashing open a
sidewall.

Rocky stuff isn’t in of its self a problem but the type for example the
sharp volcanic stuff you get in Tenerife will just slice though unprotected
tires, particularly if your a bit heavy/wooden on the bike as roadies tend
to be.

Roger, this entire string started with Mark and Lou saying that they made
good mileage with the Continental GP5000's. That surprised me because I
used them at first because they have terrific traction but they wear out
on me in very short time and low mileage. And as soon as the tread wears
down to being a little thin they get flats for the least reason. This
isn't some guess or rumor - I have experienced it on 4 sets of GP5000's..

That happens with most tires I’ve found, I replaced some Big Apples this
winter for that reason. No idea how folks can clock up that sort of mileage
on road tires I never found they lasted more than 2k.
I mentioned that these sorts of tires were no good for Joerg because he
does partial gravel rides on his commute to work and gets sidewall flats
on most road tires. Certainly Joerg is heavier than me and uses tires
with sidewall protection all the way around the tire and not just on the
traction surface like the Continental Gatorskin. I would use the
Continental 4 Seasons if I could afford them since they seem to be a
combination of every good feature of the entire Continental line, but at
$88 a copy the last set I bought, I won't be buying them again.
Bit redundant since they are all out of stock! I did like the 4 Seasons but
not sure enough that I’d pay the premium over a cheaper training tire,
though I’d not touch Gatorskins unless you live somewhere very dry as
living in a wet climate they are simply lacking in traction.

When I paid about the same for the Michelin tires on my car as 4 Seasons
on my bike, it begins to be a little bit silly.
I pay more for my MTB tires and they don’t last huge mileages but also
don’t do huge mileages.

For that bike which is my Sunday best for “big days� out it’s fine as I
want the performance, and will take the cost/wear hit.

Roger Merriman.

I have returned to using Michelin Pro4's or Power Endurance tires. These give me good mileage and rare flats until they get very worn.

On 6/8/2021 2:35 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

snip

Bit redundant since they are all out of stock!

snip

Tubes and tires are one victim of the pandemic and Trump's tariffs, a
double whammy.

Whoever thought that one insane president could cause so much damage to
the bicycle supply chain? On the other hand, Trumps bungling of the U.S.
pandemic response did increase demand for bicycles, parts,
accessories, and repairs, so in that sense it was good for bicycle shops.

A couple of months ago, my friend called me all excited that the tubes I
wanted were back in stock and he was placing a large order. He quickly
ordered them before they went out of stock again. I also happened to see
some Panaracer tubes in the size I needed on Amazon for $4.49 each.

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 3:35:46 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 6/8/2021 2:35 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

snip
Bit redundant since they are all out of stock!
snip

Tubes and tires are one victim of the pandemic and Trump's tariffs, a
double whammy.

Whoever thought that one insane president could cause so much damage to
the bicycle supply chain? On the other hand, Trumps bungling of the U.S.
pandemic response did increase demand for bicycles, parts,
accessories, and repairs, so in that sense it was good for bicycle shops.

A couple of months ago, my friend called me all excited that the tubes I
wanted were back in stock and he was placing a large order. He quickly
ordered them before they went out of stock again. I also happened to see
some Panaracer tubes in the size I needed on Amazon for $4.49 each.
As usual, your sick little mind knows no bounds. Why is it that I've had no problem getting bicycle tires except for the Continental 4 Seasons which was ALWAYS hard to get?

On 6/4/21 12:49 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 12:05:19 AM UTC+2, Mark cleary wrote:
I have been using Conti GP 5000s regular tube required. I get huge mileage out of them say 5000-6000. I put a new set on today because they seem to be squared pretty good but I could still get a glimpse of the wear indicators. They were wore down to the end but not totally disappeared. I think I could have gotten more miles but the back tire had a small sidewall type mark but nothing drastic or popping out.

Well I road the new ones and I sure could tell my cornering and handling was better. Did I imagine this or should I have gotten more miles out of the other tires. I guess my feeling it they are what meet the road don't be cheap with it?
Deacon mark

Life is too short to ride crappy tires. IMO the GP5000 are the best allround tire at the moment. Continental seems to be doing something right for more than a decade now.


IME not on their Gatorskin tires. They were expensive but three out of
the four that I tried failed prematurely with sidewall blowouts. Ok, I
milked 2500mi out of the lone survivor but at $45 that is still worse
than the 1200mi out of a $18 Vittoria Zaffiro and those never blew their
sidewalls on me. So Zaffiro are my go-to tires now for the road bike.
I've also tried CST but those were no good, less than 1000mi and the
rubber on the sidewalls began showing lots of little cracks.

To me reliability is key, with everything. Getting there without a flat
or blowout is much more important than cornering, rolling resistance or
other road-handling performance. My experience with a lot of bike parts
is that you do not always get what you pay for.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 9:34:43 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 6/4/21 12:49 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 12:05:19 AM UTC+2, Mark cleary wrote:
I have been using Conti GP 5000s regular tube required. I get huge mileage out of them say 5000-6000. I put a new set on today because they seem to be squared pretty good but I could still get a glimpse of the wear indicators. They were wore down to the end but not totally disappeared. I think I could have gotten more miles but the back tire had a small sidewall type mark but nothing drastic or popping out.

Well I road the new ones and I sure could tell my cornering and handling was better. Did I imagine this or should I have gotten more miles out of the other tires. I guess my feeling it they are what meet the road don't be cheap with it?
Deacon mark

Life is too short to ride crappy tires. IMO the GP5000 are the best allround tire at the moment. Continental seems to be doing something right for more than a decade now.
IME not on their Gatorskin tires. They were expensive but three out of
the four that I tried failed prematurely with sidewall blowouts. Ok, I
milked 2500mi out of the lone survivor but at $45 that is still worse
than the 1200mi out of a $18 Vittoria Zaffiro and those never blew their
sidewalls on me. So Zaffiro are my go-to tires now for the road bike.
I've also tried CST but those were no good, less than 1000mi and the
rubber on the sidewalls began showing lots of little cracks.

To me reliability is key, with everything. Getting there without a flat
or blowout is much more important than cornering, rolling resistance or
other road-handling performance. My experience with a lot of bike parts
is that you do not always get what you pay for.

I haven't blown a sidewall on either the Gatorskin or the Zaffiro. I think the Gatorskin has better flat resistance than the Zaffiro and better wet traction, except that the Zaffiro has a tread pattern that offers better grip on grass/leaves, etc. Wet traction differences on smooth pavement are minimal. I don't know any tire that really outperforms on wet pavement. The Michelin Pro4 Endurance and the 4Season were good. I've got some Power Endurance, but I haven't ridden them in wet weather yet.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/9/2021 1:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I think the Gatorskin has better flat resistance than the Zaffiro and better wet traction, except that the Zaffiro has a tread pattern that offers better grip on grass/leaves, etc. Wet traction differences on smooth pavement are minimal. I don't know any tire that really outperforms on wet pavement. The Michelin Pro4 Endurance and the 4Season were good. I've got some Power Endurance, but I haven't ridden them in wet weather yet.

I'll admit to being a lousy judge of bike tire traction, especially in
the wet.

I wouldn't test traction while cornering. Ever since some bad
experiences as a teenager, I've been pretty careful at cornering. Except
on a mountain bike, I can't remember ever sliding out.

I suppose wet weather braking would be a test, but I do relatively
little riding in the rain, and then I brake about as cautiously as I corner.

I do remember one fun incident, climbing a steep grade (maybe 15%) with
a friend on the back of the tandem. He and I were working hard on the
climb and came to a place where a trickle of water ran across the road.
We spun the rear wheel a bit as we crossed the wet patch.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 11:14:22 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I think the Gatorskin has better flat resistance than the Zaffiro and better wet traction, except that the Zaffiro has a tread pattern that offers better grip on grass/leaves, etc. Wet traction differences on smooth pavement are minimal. I don't know any tire that really outperforms on wet pavement. The Michelin Pro4 Endurance and the 4Season were good. I've got some Power Endurance, but I haven't ridden them in wet weather yet.
I'll admit to being a lousy judge of bike tire traction, especially in
the wet.

I wouldn't test traction while cornering. Ever since some bad
experiences as a teenager, I've been pretty careful at cornering. Except
on a mountain bike, I can't remember ever sliding out.

I suppose wet weather braking would be a test, but I do relatively
little riding in the rain, and then I brake about as cautiously as I corner.

I do remember one fun incident, climbing a steep grade (maybe 15%) with
a friend on the back of the tandem. He and I were working hard on the
climb and came to a place where a trickle of water ran across the road.
We spun the rear wheel a bit as we crossed the wet patch.

This is a little cut-through on my flat commute home that I use for tire traction testing -- and I'm testing rear wheel slip out while seated. I don't test cornering slip-out (at least not intentionally). https://tinyurl.com/tnbrhu7 If its raining hard and there is a river flowing down that street, then no tire sticks that well, but its a good place for testing when the pavement is just wet.

-- Jay Beattie.