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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



 
 
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  #131  
Old February 14th 18, 04:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 13:23:59 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 07:52:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:25:55 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 2/12/2018 5:00 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

No, Joerg is claiming that ordinary StVZO tail lights that are visible from
500 meters in Europe are not good enough for his and fellow Californians'
impaired sense of vision, and why he feels tail lights that feature 5000 ft+
visibility are preferable. And he is trying to confuse what can actually be
powered by dynamo with what he "remembers" seeing, back then, on inspecified
cycles in traffic.

The StVZO lights are woefully inadequate. Don't forget that you need one
that is visible in the daytime as well.

You need a daytime taillight exactly as much as you need a tall flippy flag.
In fact, the flippy flag is more visible under many circumstances.

Here you go:
http://www.parkerflags.com/Bicycle-Flags-Prodlist.html

You can't be too safe!

- Frank Krygowski


Some interesting statistics.

Thailand passed a law some years ago that all motorcycles must have
their lights on when being operated. Day or night, the normal front
and rear lights must be on when the vehicle is moving.

The results: These lighted vehicles are now involved in 73% of all
highway accidents, in fact these lighted vehicles now account for more
accidents then all other vehicles combined.

Amazing how lights can make you safe in one hemisphere while
(apparently) doing little or nothing to make you safe in another.



Interestingly, bicycles, although bright lights are rarely seen, make
up about 2% of highway accidents in Thailand. about the same as in the
U.S.





--
Cheers,

John B.


So what was the accident rate for motorcycles before? 50%? 90%? One
number doesn't give a lot of insight here.


Difficult to say as (1) the law came into effect 5 to 7 years ago and
(2) (strangely) Thai statistics are reported in the Thai language so
unless someone wants to take the trouble to translate a particular
year they are unintelligible to most.

As for quoting a single year's accidents and then shouting "Danger!
Danger!" it seems to be the norm, both here and in other reports.
--
Cheers,

John B.

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  #132  
Old February 14th 18, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 10:54:27 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/13/2018 5:23 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 07:52:45 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, February 12, 2018 at 8:25:55 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 2/12/2018 5:00 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

No, Joerg is claiming that ordinary StVZO tail lights that are visible from
500 meters in Europe are not good enough for his and fellow Californians'
impaired sense of vision, and why he feels tail lights that feature 5000 ft+
visibility are preferable. And he is trying to confuse what can actually be
powered by dynamo with what he "remembers" seeing, back then, on inspecified
cycles in traffic.

The StVZO lights are woefully inadequate. Don't forget that you need one
that is visible in the daytime as well.

You need a daytime taillight exactly as much as you need a tall flippy flag.
In fact, the flippy flag is more visible under many circumstances.

Here you go:
http://www.parkerflags.com/Bicycle-Flags-Prodlist.html

You can't be too safe!

- Frank Krygowski

Some interesting statistics.

Thailand passed a law some years ago that all motorcycles must have
their lights on when being operated. Day or night, the normal front
and rear lights must be on when the vehicle is moving.

The results: These lighted vehicles are now involved in 73% of all
highway accidents, in fact these lighted vehicles now account for more
accidents then all other vehicles combined.

Amazing how lights can make you safe in one hemisphere while
(apparently) doing little or nothing to make you safe in another.



Interestingly, bicycles, although bright lights are rarely seen, make
up about 2% of highway accidents in Thailand. about the same as in the
U.S.





--
Cheers,

John B.


So what was the accident rate for motorcycles before? 50%? 90%? One
number doesn't give a lot of insight here.


LOL, exactly the right question. Also, what else changed besides the
lighting requirement?

Some people don't WANT to understand the difference between correlation
and causation!


But, but, nothing changed except that the motorcycles had to turn
their lights on.

I do agree however that "Some people don't WANT to understand the
difference between correlation and causation!" It is perfectly true
and most commonly observed among those who are striving to convince
others that bright bicycle lights make one safer.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #133  
Old February 14th 18, 09:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,333
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light.


LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities
running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very
good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something
that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on
motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated.

Sometimes you have to look at other relevant studies and extrapolate.

Sometimes you just have to use logic and common sense, and not dismiss
every thing you don't like, without any facts or logic by screaming
"danger danger," like our fried from Ohio.
  #134  
Old February 14th 18, 11:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light.


LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities
running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very
good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something
that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on
motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated.


You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by
Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet
powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect?

Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make
Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did
you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing
the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little
bike light with bright clear illumination".

But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered
by a magnet attached to the spokes really is?

Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would
be a proponent of such a tiny little light.


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #135  
Old February 14th 18, 04:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,428
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:08:10 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light.


LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities
running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very
good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something
that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on
motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated.


You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by
Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet
powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect?

Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make
Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did
you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing
the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little
bike light with bright clear illumination".

But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered
by a magnet attached to the spokes really is?

Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would
be a proponent of such a tiny little light.


A tiny little one LED lamp that reduces the number of SOLO accidents by over one-quarter. Moreover, the benefits were greatest during the day and not at twilight or even night -- which is odd. You look at these studies and really wonder how valid they are. Not that a DRL is a bad thing, but again, during bright daylight, I see clothes long before lights. Jan Heine thinks you should wear ninja outfits to hide from the cars. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...rget-fixation/ He rides fat tires and knows everything, so that's what I'm going to do.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #136  
Old February 14th 18, 05:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,333
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 7:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A tiny little one LED lamp that reduces the number of SOLO accidents by over one-quarter. Moreover, the benefits were greatest during the day and not at twilight or even night -- which is odd.


Why is that odd? At night, most riders in that area were probably
already using some sort of lights, but most were probably not turning
them on in the daytime, either to save the battery or to reduce drag.

There is just not going to be a double-blind study, conducted in 37
different cities throughout the world, to determine that the same
benefits that DRLs provide to motorcycles and vehicles, are enjoyed by
cyclists using DRLs, At some point you have to take the smaller studies
and realize that while they may not be perfect, neither are they
severely flawed.

Understand that those that dismiss the benefits of DRLs are not doing so
because they actually believe that there are no benefits, they are doing
so because it is part of an agenda that they are promoting. It's the
same thing with helmets. When every study shows a benefit, it makes no
difference to them. They'll search for any extremely small issue with
the study and try to blow it up out of proportion. Yet no one would
think any worse of them if they simply stated "yes, there is a benefit
to wearing a helmet if you're in a head-impact crash, but those crashes
are sufficiently rare that there is no need for a compulsory helmet law,
and each adult should be free to choose the amount of risk they are
willing to accept."
  #137  
Old February 14th 18, 05:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,333
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 7:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A tiny little one LED lamp that reduces the number of SOLO accidents by over one-quarter. Moreover, the benefits were greatest during the day and not at twilight or even night -- which is odd.


Why is that odd? At night, most riders in that area were probably
already using some sort of lights, but most were probably not turning
them on in the daytime, either to save the battery or to reduce drag.

There is just not going to be a double-blind study, conducted in 37
different cities throughout the world, to determine that the same
benefits that DRLs provide to motorcycles and vehicles, are enjoyed by
cyclists using DRLs, At some point you have to take the smaller studies
and realize that while they may not be perfect, neither are they
severely flawed.

Understand that those that dismiss the benefits of DRLs are not doing so
because they actually believe that there are no benefits, they are doing
so because it is part of an agenda that they are promoting. It's the
same thing with helmets. When every study shows a benefit, it makes no
difference to them. They'll search for any extremely small issue with
the study and try to blow it up out of proportion. Yet no one would
think any worse of them if they simply stated "yes, there is a benefit
to wearing a helmet if you're in a head-impact crash, but those crashes
are sufficiently rare that there is no need for a compulsory helmet law,
and each adult should be free to choose the amount of risk they are
willing to accept."
  #138  
Old February 14th 18, 06:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,329
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 5:08 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote:

When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light.


LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities
running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very
good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something
that doesn't fit their agenda.

It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on
motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated.


You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by
Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet
powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect?

Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make
Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did
you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing
the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little
bike light with bright clear illumination".

But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered
by a magnet attached to the spokes really is?

Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would
be a proponent of such a tiny little light.


It's also laughable that Scharf (AKA "sms") has spent years telling us
that dynamo lights are totally inadequate. But he sings the praises of a
tiny light that blinks on only when a spoke magnet passes its little
pickup coil.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #139  
Old February 14th 18, 07:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,329
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/14/2018 11:33 AM, sms wrote:
On 2/14/2018 7:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A tiny little one LED lamp that reduces the number of SOLO accidents
by over one-quarter. Moreover, the benefits were greatest during the
day and not at twilight or even night -- which is odd.


Why is that odd? At night, most riders in that area were probably
already using some sort of lights, but most were probably not turning
them on in the daytime, either to save the battery or to reduce drag.


It's odd, Stephen, because a "solo accident" means the rider fell down
all by himself. Those Reelights are far, far too dim to act as
show-the-road headlights at night, and it's TOTALLY impossible for them
to help the rider avoid hazards in the daytime. So if the rider has been
given a magic light to test and reports that it saves him from falling
down, it indicates a bull**** study.

Understand that those that dismiss the benefits of DRLs are not doing so
because they actually believe that there are no benefits, they are doing
so because it is part of an agenda that they are promoting.


One agenda I promote is accurate research. One agenda you promote is
pretending that your own weird personal choices should be used by all
other cyclists. And that the only studies that count are the ones that
agree with your personal choices, no matter how bad those studies are.

And let's see, what have your personal choices been? Homemade
headlights. Flippy flags on bicycles. Styrofoam hats, of course.
Blinding marine strobe taillights day and night. Headlights that glare
in others' eyes, day and night. Elaborate coffee carrying systems. Am I
missing any?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #140  
Old February 14th 18, 09:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,428
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 10:09:25 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2018 11:33 AM, sms wrote:
On 2/14/2018 7:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A tiny little one LED lamp that reduces the number of SOLO accidents
by over one-quarter. Moreover, the benefits were greatest during the
day and not at twilight or even night -- which is odd.


Why is that odd? At night, most riders in that area were probably
already using some sort of lights, but most were probably not turning
them on in the daytime, either to save the battery or to reduce drag.


It's odd, Stephen, because a "solo accident" means the rider fell down
all by himself. Those Reelights are far, far too dim to act as
show-the-road headlights at night, and it's TOTALLY impossible for them
to help the rider avoid hazards in the daytime. So if the rider has been
given a magic light to test and reports that it saves him from falling
down, it indicates a bull**** study.

Understand that those that dismiss the benefits of DRLs are not doing so
because they actually believe that there are no benefits, they are doing
so because it is part of an agenda that they are promoting.


One agenda I promote is accurate research. One agenda you promote is
pretending that your own weird personal choices should be used by all
other cyclists. And that the only studies that count are the ones that
agree with your personal choices, no matter how bad those studies are.

And let's see, what have your personal choices been? Homemade
headlights. Flippy flags on bicycles. Styrofoam hats, of course.
Blinding marine strobe taillights day and night. Headlights that glare
in others' eyes, day and night. Elaborate coffee carrying systems. Am I
missing any?



I wear a styrofoam hat; I wear high-viz sometimes, and I use a bunch of different lights -- and even a DRL when its overcast or raining. So, I'm already half-way to believing. But when a study involving the safety benefits of a lame little hub-level blinky shows that it reduces solo daytime accidents by over 25%, that doesn't pass the smell test. Does the light improve wet-road grip? Braking power? Attention? Maybe the riders are just more vigilant being in a study group. I'm more vigilant when I know I'm being studied, particularly when I'm being studied by a cop.

-- Jay Beattie.
 




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