Memorial Day (OT)

Since politics is the third favorite subject here, behind racing and
porn I wanted to weigh in with some comments particularly because of
the stupid **** going on these days.
I get hammered for arguing the "right wing" side here, and I've
explained why I do it to no avail. I want and need to do something
different today.
If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.
Anyway, everywhere you look today, it's the "Kommie Left" stepping up
fighting to get the troops better equipment, medical care, benefits,
and decent treatment.
I hear lots of lip service, and PR spots from the right, but they've
closed ranks behind the military industrial, mercenary, clown complex
at the expense of the folks getting their asses blown off.
Lots of people here who get accused of being anti-American Commies
have stepped up and donated to the USO and done other things I know
of. What's un-American is to give anyone a free pass based on labels
and rhetoric.
I've said it before, and I'm not any less cynical about the motives,
and am not about to forgive and forget, but today the vast majority of
the folks on the left are doing far more for the troops, their
families, and the Country than the clowns in the Whitehouse and their
cronies.
I just wanted to thank those folks here, especially since they do get
abused by military folks, for showing up and supporting them anyway.
That's a hell of a start to healing a lot of old wounds, and takes a
lot of courage, and conviction from the folks on the left who are
doing it.
Anyway, Thanks folks.
Bill C

On Sun, 25 May 2008 15:18:42 -0700 (PDT), Bill C
wrote:

If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.

What is your problem? Everything has a bugaboo leftie behind it.

The reason thet Bushco can't be prosecuted is that the evidence is
hidden behind executive privelege, destroyed evidence, a corrupt
justice department, etc.

On Mon, 26 May 2008 00:33:12 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

On Sun, 25 May 2008 15:18:42 -0700 (PDT), Bill C
wrote:

If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.

What is your problem? Everything has a bugaboo leftie behind it.

The reason thet Bushco can't be prosecuted is that the evidence is
hidden behind executive privelege, destroyed evidence, a corrupt
justice department, etc.

One other thing Bill -start living in the present and start blaming
people who are responsible NOW for what what's going on.

Clearly the left really upset you in the past, but you've got to let
it go and view the world through current reality.

Or, if you don't want to let it go, blame them for whatever they did
to you in the past, but stop viewing today through that old lens.

On May 25, 8:36*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 26 May 2008 00:33:12 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson

wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008 15:18:42 -0700 (PDT), Bill C
wrote:

If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.

What is your problem? *Everything has a bugaboo leftie behind it.

The reason thet Bushco can't be prosecuted is that the evidence is
hidden behind executive privelege, destroyed evidence, a corrupt
justice department, etc.

One other thing Bill -start living in the present and start blaming
people who are responsible NOW for what what's going on.

Clearly the left really upset you in the past, *but you've got to let
it go and view the world through current reality. *

Or, if you don't want to let it go, blame them for whatever they did
to you in the past, but stop viewing today through that old lens.

The past informs the future JT. How do you seperate people from their
past? You can't seperate Africans from being enslaved, you can't
seperate Jews from the Holocaust, you can't seperate Progressives from
their past either.
I think I'm moving on. I can, and do recognize what's happening
today. A large part of that has been you in particular moving me on.
Bill C

On May 25, 9:24*pm, Bill C wrote:
On May 25, 8:36*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:





On Mon, 26 May 2008 00:33:12 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson

wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008 15:18:42 -0700 (PDT), Bill C
wrote:

If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.

What is your problem? *Everything has a bugaboo leftie behind it.

The reason thet Bushco can't be prosecuted is that the evidence is
hidden behind executive privelege, destroyed evidence, a corrupt
justice department, etc.

One other thing Bill -start living in the present and start blaming
people who are responsible NOW for what what's going on.

Clearly the left really upset you in the past, *but you've got to let
it go and view the world through current reality. *

Or, if you don't want to let it go, blame them for whatever they did
to you in the past, but stop viewing today through that old lens.

The past informs the future JT. How do you seperate people from their
past? You can't seperate Africans from being enslaved, you can't
seperate Jews from the Holocaust, you can't seperate Progressives from
their past either.
*I think I'm moving on. I can, and do recognize what's happening
today. A large part of that has been you in particular moving me on.
*Bill C- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

JT I'm really happy to see the liberal folks making the suicide rate
today a big issue, because it is, but it's not smart strategy on their
part.
There's a much higher awareness today, better treatment, more support
and many less troops than were in Vietnam.
Vietnam vets came home to brutal hostility from people on the left
who actively supported the enemy.
Howard asked if I thought they were all traitors a while ago. I
didn't answer then, and I`'ll answer this way today. The VC/NVA knew
the couldn't win militarily, and that's from their own words and
writings. They needed to break America's will to support South
Vietnam. They were counting on the anti-war movement to do that for
them. Tet destroyed the VC. They knew it was suicide going in, but
also bet that it would be the straw that broke the support and won
them the war. It was a tactical disaster, and strategically it won
them the war because of what it did for the anti-war movement.
If suicide is such a big issue now, how much worse was it then, when
they were comning home to be hated and abused by the people who now
claim to support them? I'm willing to admit that many of those folks
may feel guilty and have changed their attitudes, but that doesn't
bring all those vets who made it home and were destroyed by the hatred
here back.
I can see McCain using this issue, and it's a good one for him.
Someone is eventually going to do a detailed study showing a much
higher rate from Vietnam, and there's no way for the Progressives to
deny their leading role in making a bad situation exponentially worse.
Bill C

On Sun, 25 May 2008 18:24:27 -0700 (PDT), Bill C
wrote:


The past informs the future JT. How do you seperate people from their
past? You can't seperate Africans from being enslaved, you can't
seperate Jews from the Holocaust, you can't seperate Progressives from
their past either.

Yeah, that's why I'll never vote Democratic. It was the Republicans
that freed the slaves.

On Sun, 25 May 2008 19:25:11 -0700 (PDT), Bill C
wrote:

Vietnam vets came home to brutal hostility from people on the left
who actively supported the enemy.

So what? If you want to rag all over those people for what they did
then, great.

But believing that because, say, progressives in the early 1970s
treated veterans badly then means you can't trust a progressives 40
years later even though you agree with them on almost every
substantive issue now is just nutty.

Bill C wrote:

On May 25, 9:24 pm, Bill C wrote:

On May 25, 8:36 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:






On Mon, 26 May 2008 00:33:12 GMT, John Forrest Tomlinson

wrote:

On Sun, 25 May 2008 15:18:42 -0700 (PDT), Bill C
wrote:

If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.

What is your problem? Everything has a bugaboo leftie behind it.

The reason thet Bushco can't be prosecuted is that the evidence is
hidden behind executive privelege, destroyed evidence, a corrupt
justice department, etc.

One other thing Bill -start living in the present and start blaming
people who are responsible NOW for what what's going on.

Clearly the left really upset you in the past, but you've got to let
it go and view the world through current reality.

Or, if you don't want to let it go, blame them for whatever they did
to you in the past, but stop viewing today through that old lens.

The past informs the future JT. How do you seperate people from their
past? You can't seperate Africans from being enslaved, you can't
seperate Jews from the Holocaust, you can't seperate Progressives from
their past either.
I think I'm moving on. I can, and do recognize what's happening
today. A large part of that has been you in particular moving me on.
Bill C- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


JT I'm really happy to see the liberal folks making the suicide rate
today a big issue, because it is, but it's not smart strategy on their
part.
There's a much higher awareness today, better treatment, more support
and many less troops than were in Vietnam.
Vietnam vets came home to brutal hostility from people on the left
who actively supported the enemy.
Howard asked if I thought they were all traitors a while ago. I
didn't answer then, and I`'ll answer this way today. The VC/NVA knew
the couldn't win militarily, and that's from their own words and
writings. They needed to break America's will to support South
Vietnam. They were counting on the anti-war movement to do that for
them. Tet destroyed the VC. They knew it was suicide going in, but
also bet that it would be the straw that broke the support and won
them the war. It was a tactical disaster, and strategically it won
them the war because of what it did for the anti-war movement.
If suicide is such a big issue now, how much worse was it then, when
they were comning home to be hated and abused by the people who now
claim to support them?


Soldiers don't commit suicide because citizens oppose a war. You make
it sound like when a soldier comes home and goes to Walmart, the
customers and cashier are harassing him about the war. And that this
goes on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

In reality, once you take off the uniform, nobody even knows if you
fought in a war.

How did the public "abuse" soldiers?

I remember at Kent State when National Guard killed 4 protesters. But I
don't recall any incident of a soldier being killed when they came home
from either Vietnam or Iraq.

Stop being so melodramatic.


Magilla

Bill C wrote:


If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.

Bill C


What did Jane Fonda do to be found guilty of treason? Last time I
checked she had a First Amendment right to protest the war.

If I were you I would go back and re-read the Constitution if you want
to know why she wasn't prosecuted for "treason."

Thanks,

Magilla

On May 26, 7:45*am, MagillaGorilla wrote:
Bill C wrote:
*If Bush and company aren't guilty of treason it's only because the
left fought so hard to make it almost impossible to prosecute someone
for this, but they did that in self defense since there's no question
in my mind Hanoi Jane, at least, was guilty of it along with many
others.
Bill C

What did Jane Fonda do to be found guilty of treason? *Last time I
checked she had a First Amendment right to protest the war.

If I were you I would go back and re-read the Constitution if you want
to know why she wasn't prosecuted for "treason."

Thanks,

Magilla

Providing material support in the way of propaganda. traveling to the
enemy country and doing publicity for them, etc...Same stuff Tokyo
Rose did.
Bill C